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DR. FREDRICKSON: Dr. Melnick? 
DR. MELNICK: Dr. Goldstein, you asked that epidemiological information 
be made available before using polyoma and SV40 as vectors. There is epi- 
demiological information. We know that polyoma does not infect human beings. 
There have been epidemiological studies going on on SV40 now for about 15 
years. Inadvertently polio vaccine that contained SV40 was fed to newborn 
children who have been followed during this period of time. Even though 
SV40 in large doses may infect human beings, there is no evidence that it 
produces tumors in them. In fact, there is no evidence that SV40 produces 
tumors in its natural host, and if the hamster had never been brought into 
the laboratory as a test animal, we wouldn't know that SV40 was oncogenic 
at all in any species. 
There is no way of transferring the date obtained from hamsters to 
human beings. Adenoviruses are very oncogenic to hamsters, and there is 
no evidence that they are oncogenic to man. 
DR. GOLDSTEIN: May I respond? 
DR. FREDRICKSON: Yes. 
DR. GOLDSTEIN: I wouldn't want to challenge your expertise in that 
area, but I have questions about it. The studies you just mentioned are 15- 
year studies. What happens 30 years from now? That is one point. We don't 
know. The question has not been answered. 
Then there is the beautiful work presented, to give you an example, by 
Hanafusa at the tumor virus meetings at Cold Spring Harbor. I think it was 
with quail viruses, and basically the idea is that one virus may act as a 
helper for another virus, or it can induce another virus, and if we look for 
something very direct we say, "Does polyoma cause cancer?" or "Does SV40 
cause cancer?" and in a direct sense we may not see that. 
But I don't think there is any certainty as to the effect that may have 
on other viruses, which are in those cells. I think everyone would agree 
that we are filled with other viruses. 
DR. MELNICK: It may take generations. 
DR. GOLDSTEIN: That is right. 
DR. MELNICK: It may never be provable. 
DR. GOLDSTEIN: You are absolutely right, but that question should be 
raised. 
DR. FREDRICKSON: Thank you very much. Dr. Goldstein. 
[305] 
