HUMANE TREATMENT OF ANIMALS USED IN RESEARCH 277 
I will say this. For a doctor who might get in his mind some pos- 
sible research project and he, in order to engage in this project, would 
have to go through these various formalities and different application 
mechanisms very well might not result in engaging in that research. 
I think that is very true. 
However, I do not believe that that aspect of any unfavorable con- 
sideration of this mechanism would be of such magnitude as to feel 
that it should be used, you might say, as any evidence against the 
development of this type of administrative authority. 
Mr. Roberts. Do you think that the inspection phases and record- 
keeping could be worked out in such a way that it would not unduly 
burden people who are engaging in research ? 
Dr. Herbst. I would answer vigorously affirmatively in that regard 
because the Surgeons General of the Public Health Service over the 
years I am sure, according to your own observation, have been un- 
usually capable individuals, particularly since the advent of Surgeon 
General Parran. They have engaged in the broadest possible activity 
in medicine in all of its phases. I cannot think of a single way in 
which a single one of the Surgeons General have not done a most re- 
markable job. I think they are all dedicated, they are underpaid 
insofar as their responsibilities and functions are concerned. They 
are very remarkable people. 
Mr. Koberts. Thank you very much. As I mentioned before off 
the record, knowing your son as well as I do, I know you are a very 
modest individual, but I would like you to detail some of the training 
and experience you have had in your practice here in Washington. 
Dr. Herbst. Well, I have engaged in research in the action of cer- 
tain drugs in regard to malignancy. I have participated in the de- 
velopment of the endocrine control of cancer of the prostate to an 
appreciable degree. I happen to be the incumbent chairman of the 
research committee of the American Neurological Association and at 
the present time am the president of the American Board of Urology. 
I am an associate professor of urology at Georgetown University 
Medical School. I participate in the training programs of Walter 
Reed and Naval Medical Center and the National Institutes of Health. 
Mr. Roberts. I certainly think that experience entitles you to speak 
authoritatively on this problem. We are certainly grateful to you for 
coming. 
Dr. Herbst. I might say in the meantime I practice urology. Thank 
you very much. 
Mr. Roberts. Thank you so much for your appearance. 
Our next witness will be Mrs. Robert Gesell of Ann Arbor, Mich. 
Mrs. Gesell, other witnesses have testified to the wonderful work of 
your husband, and we are delighted to have you appear here to make 
a statement. 
STATEMENT OE MRS. ROBERT GESELL, ANN ARBOR, MICH. 
Mrs. Gesell. After 50 years of observing the sporadic attempts of 
some investigators in this country to provide moderately humane 
treatment of experimental animals by their own efforts, I wish to 
testify in favor of the Griffiths bill. 
