380 
with that, because it has simply dealt with facts as they are. My argu- 
ment was not that Christianity has succeeded in driving away all vice from 
the world, because I could not live a week or a day without finding 
something that would conflict with that view ; but what I say is, that vice 
existed before Christ came, and that Christianity has restrained it, and 
is restraining it to a great extent, and therefore it is so far clear that 
Christianity comes from God. Then I have been told that Christianity 
exercises an influence rather upon individuals than upon the world. If Mr. 
Dibdin will turn to the 14th and 15th paragraphs of my paper, he will see 
that I have made that observation myself, hut I cannot of course carry it 
out at length in so short a paper. I must leave my audience to bear some- 
thing in mind. I have taken it as my starting-point, that if Christianity 
has produced, as we know it has produced, a marvellous influence upon the 
lives of individuals, that influence will make itself felt throughout the world, 
that you or I, so far as we are influenced by the spirit of Christ, exercise a 
restraining influence upon all around us, and do our best to raise the moral 
tone of the whole of society. Then as to drunkenness, the same speaker 
seemed to say that it was not banished from the lower classes, and that is 
what I said myself ; but I say also, that it is my firm belief, that the efforts 
now being made by Sir Wilfrid Lawson and others will not be many years 
without bearing fruit, just as the agitation under the great Wilberforce for 
putting down slavery bore fruit. Some of us may not live to see it, but I 
believe that others now in this room will live to see drunkenness banished 
from all classes, simply and solely through the influence of the Christian 
religion. 
Finally, I would like to make one remark about the letter of Dr. Irons. 
Dr. Irons seems to think that I have not given enough effect to the doc- 
trines of Christianity as apart from its moral power. Perhaps I have not 
dealt with that point so clearly as I wished to do, but what I wished to 
bring forward was that the moral power of Christianity was inseparable 
from its doctrines. Christianity could have had no moral power whatever 
if our Lord had only preached the Sermon on the Mount, or only talked 
wisely and well, and done nothing more. But what I have said in the 
paper, though I confess that I have not laid sufficient stress upon it, is that 
Christ gave us the power to carry Christianity into effect : He not only gave 
us the purest and best morality that the world has ever seen, but the means 
of carrying it into our lives and our souls ; and that the spring of all virtue 
and all morality is Christ Himself. When we say that a moral power has 
been introduced into the world which will compare with any influence 
brought to bear on us before, we say in effect that we believe that in the 
beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was 
God. (Cheers.) 
The Meeting was then adjourned. 
* # * This discussion is given verbatim, as many popular objections are treated 
on therein. 
