208 
LOCKHART ON THE Y AN G-TSE-KI A N G, &c. [April 26, 1858. 
described the grand plain of China, and the commercial importance of that part 
of the country. Upon the latter point the Chinese themselves admit that 
their four most important marts are in the interior. In this remark of theirs 
they do not refer to the seaports, hut to distinct inland marts. These are 
Fuh-shan, called in Canton patois Fatshan , which has recently been visited 
by the British forces ; Uhusin , 12 miles from Kai-fung-fu, on the banks of 
the Yellow River ; Han-chow , and King-tih-chin — three of these markets lying 
in the plain of the Yang-tse-Kiang. Every one who looks at the state of the 
case must view with the greatest anxiety the results of our present onslaught 
at Canton ; and we cannot but believe that the ultimate result will be the 
opening of the great plain of the “ Flowery land” to foreign intercourse of 
every description. We shall find there opportunity enough for adventure and 
enterprise, as well as for the advancement of commerce and civilisation. 
Mr. B. Williams, f.r.g.s. — Allow me to say one word after the remarks 
the gallant Captain has made. He said, I think, that we had not gone up the 
river beyond Nankin. Perhaps he is not aware that Captain Fishbourne of 
H.M.S. Hermes sent a boat 9 or 10 miles above that city in the year 1852. 
My son, now Lieutenant Frederick Williams, had command of that expedi- 
tion, and found in that distance that the river varied in width from half a 
mile to between 6 and 7 miles, and that in places there was only depth for a 
steamer of very light draught ,of water. Captain Fishbourne has published 
his observations on the moral and social condition of China. 
I think, Sir, with your permission we ought to make some slight protest 
against the remarks of Mr. Crawfurd. He designated the rebels rather harshly. 
According to Captain Fishbourne they have, at any rate, overthrown idolatry. 
They receive the word of God with the greatest deference and eagerness. 
They call us brothers, and they are themselves engaged in printing the Bible 
to a very large extent. So far there seems to be an incipient degree of civili- 
sation, to say the least, amongst them. 
Mr. Crawfurd. — A few words with reference to what I said about the 
Imperialists and rebels. I did not say that the Manchus were a civilised and 
humane people. I said the rebels were barbarous. I believe they are both of 
them barbarous, and I see only a small distinction in favour of the Manchus. 
I think I am entitled to say so much, because the Manchus have governed 
China 200 years ; and on the whole they have governed it better than any 
other Asiatic state has been governed. With respect to the Tye-pings, of 
whom some gentlemen are disposed to think favourably, I cannot think 
favourably of a people that destroy whole cities and massacre the inhabitants 
in cold blood, for this they have done over and over again. 
Mr. Lockhart. — T wenty cities. 
Mr. Crawfurd. — And as for treating with them, Sir George Bonham went 
up to Nankin, and endeavoured to hold intercourse with them ; and they were 
too proud even to give him an interview. The principal leader calls himself 
the Brother of the Saviour ! What respect can be entertained for a party that 
uses or believes such abominations ? For six years these people have been 
committing murders and devastation, but they have made no essential progress. 
They crossed the Yellow River five years ago ; they were beaten by the 
Manchus ; and out of an army of 40,000 men, only 5000 returned to Nankin. 
There they have continued ever since in possession of a small part of the 
country around Nankin, beyond which they have made no progress whatever. 
I really do not see that we should be interrupted by a people of that descrip- 
tion. I have one observation to make with reference to what fell from Mr. 
Alcock. He thinks that our intercourse with China cannot be carried on 
satisfactorily unless we have a legation at Pekin. From that opinion I totally 
dissent. I have been myself in a position somewhat similar. I was once sent 
as an envoy to the Birman Court, which is 400 miles up the Irrawaddy, and 
