36 
DEBATES OK PHARMACY BILL. 
if it should be made more stringent than it now stands. I am glad to see that my 
noble friend, the noble Duke the President of the Council, has placed some amendments 
on the paper which, I think, will be a great improvement to the working of this Bill. 
It is also proposed by a noble lord that, in the case of the sale of poisons, a certain bottle 
shall be used; but whether this amendment will meet with the approbation of Parlia¬ 
ment is uncertain. The amendments having reference to the action of the Privy 
Council I cannot object to. With these few explanations, I hope the Bill will be 
allowed to pass through Committee. 
Lord ,Vaux of Harrowden : I fully concur with my noble friend that this measure 
is a necessary one, and I trust your lordships will not object to extend its provisions to Ire¬ 
land, where at present there are no chemists and druggists in the sense understood in Eng¬ 
land ; for, in consequence of the severe examinations which the dispensers of medicines 
in that country have to undergo in Dublin, they will not, or do not, practise as chemists ; 
and hence the great difficulty in getting a prescription made up in the small towns and 
villages in that country. I have been in communication with some medical practitioners 
in Dublin, and they have satisfied me that persons who are not apothecaries ought to be 
allowed to sell drugs, provided they undergo an examination. I hope there will be no 
objection to extend the operation of the Bill to Ireland. 
Earl Granville : It appears that the qualifications required in Ireland for the dis¬ 
pensing of drugs are too high. However, so far as I am concerned, I shall have no ob¬ 
jection to the extension of the Bill to that country. 
The Duke of Marlborough : I do not wish to interfere with the discretion of the 
noble earl in making this Bill extend to Ireland, but I think that if the noble earl has 
any desire that the Bill shall pass through the other House, he will not accept the pro¬ 
position to extend it to that country. I have no objection to the Bill going into com¬ 
mittee. It is a Bill of very great importance, and that is shown by the Report of the 
Medical Officer of the Privy Council, who states that in many small country towns 
drapery and all sorts of goods and wares are sold by the same traders, and that arrow- 
root, rice, oatmeal, and other things reach purchasers with a mixture of arsenic, and that 
it was in consequence of this sort of trading that a lamentable accident occurred at 
Bradford some years ago. I understand that my noble friend proposes to make use of 
the existing Pharmaceutical Society, who so ably conduct the examination of Pharma¬ 
ceutical Chemists, and also to make use of the machinery of their Minor examinations in 
having a general examination of all the future chemists throughout the country. It 
will be recollected that the Pharmaceutical Society is at present a voluntary association. 
It may be very desirable that the examination conducted by the Society should be made 
general throughout the country. If, however, there was any other examining Society of 
a similar character in existence, it would be fair to consider the claims of that society 
before granting pre-eminence to the Pharmaceutical Society ; but there is not another 
society occupying the place or position which the Pharmaceutical Society occupies ; and 
as this Society does occupy this high post, and they came forward in the public interest 
to ask that all persons trading in the sale of poisons shall undergo a fair examination, 
the Government have no objection that this power should be conferred upon the Society. 
But, at the same time, as these examinations are to made compulsory upon all persons 
who will hereafter practise as chemists and druggists, the Government are of opinion 
that it will be desirable that they shall have some control over the examinations ; and 
consequently amendments are on the table providing that the Privy Council, which has 
a medical department, shall see that the examinations are conducted in a proper manner. 
Regulations will be made in reference to the sale of poisons, and these will be submitted 
to the Privy Council for approbation. I find that my noble friend has not placed in the 
schedule of poisons a poison most destructive to human life, videlicet opium. Now this 
article is much uSed by men and women, and largely given to infants; it is a very de¬ 
structive poison, and I shall be glad to see it included in the schedule. With these ob¬ 
servations, I agree with the measure generally. 
Lord Redesdale : I wish to propose a clause that an angular bottle shall be used by 
all persons in the sale of poisons, and I cannot see that there will be any objection to 
my clause in committee. If there shall be, I will reserve my right to move it upon the 
report of the Bill, when perhaps a greater number of noble lords will be present. The 
reason why the clause is objected to by the Pharmaceutical Society is that all persons 
who may dispense poisons may not be able to obtain such a bottle, and, even if they can. 
