February 9, 1893. ] 
JOURNAL OF HORTICULTURE AND COTTAGE GARDENER. 
109 
one ” when the said compariion is to the discredit of the former, and I 
am sure the members of the N.E.S. will agree with me. 
It is not wise, as a rale, to say “ the cap fits ; ” but the picture of an 
“ exhibitor who, on being asked to clear out, folds his arms and steadily 
refuses to do so until he gets a place for his box,” does, I admit, repre¬ 
sent me fairly enough. Whether it will be a faithful likeness of my 
attitude on July Ist, 1893, depends, I now understand, entirely upon the 
Crystal Palace Company and Mr. Head. 
“ D., Deal," next reflects sarcastically on the “ virtuous claims ” of the 
advocates of a later date. He applies a simple “ tu quoque”to my 
statement that I heard no reasons put forward by the advocates of an 
early date except that their own Roses would be over at a later one ; but 
he does not notice the concluding part of the same sentenee, “ that the 
supporters of Mr. Pemberton’s motion had so many arguments of all 
sorts that the time would not suffice for them.” This denied the “ tu 
quoque” beforehand, and Mr. Pemberton’s letter on the same page as 
his own sufficiently disposes of this weak rejoinder. 
“ D., Deal's" next two arguments seem to me to prove just what he 
does not want them to do. He actually takes up the cry raised at the 
general meeting of the fewness of northern members, apparently as 
a reason for not taking them into consideration, without seeing that it 
is because they have not equal privileges with others that they are so 
few in number. He then goes on to show of the Provincial Exhibition 
that “ the Jubilee and most of the principal prizes have gone to Essex, 
Somerset, Gloucestershire, Herts, &c.,” and does not see that this 
proves that a later date suits all these counties as well as northern ones. 
With all that he says upon judging I quite agree; it would be im¬ 
possible, even if advisable, to judge the medal Roses after the classes. 
But I am surprised that Mr. Grahame (on the same page) does not know 
that a knowledge of Roses as grown on different soils is desirable in a 
judge. Has he not noticed, when visiting the gardens of other growers, 
certain marked differences in some varieties as grown on different soils ? 
For an instance or two : my plants of Beauty of Waltham are fine, to 
all appearance it “ does well ” with me, yet Mr. Pemberton’s blooms of 
the same variety are not only better in size and colour, but there is also 
apparently a difference in character, and it would require experience to 
know that the variety is true in each case. Prince Camille de Rohan, 
nearest to black on a good Rose soil, will only come deep crimson, quite 
different in eolour, in some other places. And who but Mr. Prince can 
show Comtesse de Nadaillac successfully in the class for yellow Roses ? 
I have had the medal first two or three times at least, but it is always 
more pink than yellow with me. These are but examples of the many 
idiosyncrasies among Roses. How then can a man, merely from a study 
of his own garden, though it be as minute as possible (the study, not the 
garden !) expect to equal in experience a wider observer ? 
I agree, however, with what Mr. Grahame says about giving no 
points to moss, «&c., if possible, but we are bound by the rules, which 
(v. 5) say, that in case of equal merit in blooms we should consider 
other details. In such instances there would have to be a large 
discrepancy in all these matters put together to prevent my judging the 
stands as equal, in all cases where the prize can be divided ; but where 
there is a cup or trophy one must decide if possible. In the best prize 
(cash) I tried for last season the Judges declared my blooms and my 
opponent’s to be equal, but gave him first because his blooms were “ a 
little ” (their words) better set up. 
As to the question of proxy voting, “ D., Deal's" objections seem to 
me (“ naturally,” he will say) to be answered by my remarks immediately 
opposite ; and his principal argument (well illustrated by the story of 
the cart before the horse—I mean the colleciion before the sermon) to 
be met by a sentence of his own at the commencement of his letter of 
two columns, where he says that “ he does not suppose that anything he 
will write will have the least effect upon any of the disputants.” It is 
not denied that voting in person is best, but it is argued that proxy 
voting for members at a distance is better than so taxing their votes as 
practically to disfranchise all but those with plenty of money and 
leisure. 
But bearing in mind what has been said, and without in any way 
committing myself to it, how would the supporters and opponents of 
proxy voting like this compromise? “ That at a general meeting, voting 
by proxy shall be allowed on any subject which has been debated at a 
previous general meeting.” Let it be understood that I ask the opinion 
of members of the N.R.S. upon this matter “ without prejudice,” or 
promising to give up the original motion.—W. R. Raillem. 
National Rose Society. 
A LINE of congratulation, Mr. Editor, upon the “ rosy ” character of 
your last issue. My good friend, Mr. Grahame, has met me several 
times during the last few months with the lamentation, ” How is it 
there’s nothing about Rose matters in the Journal now ? ” but I think 
the last number will satisfy even him. 
The Metropolitan Show. 
“ D., Deal," claims great advantage from the fact that in discussing 
this matter he speaks as a non-exhibitor, but he seems to forget that 
there is another side to this question, and one which rather tends to dis¬ 
count anything he may say upon the matter. The rule of the N.R.S. 
concerning judges is, “ They shall be selected principally from successful 
exhibitors,” and this rule was adopted because it was felt that those 
who were not at the present moment exhibiting as well as growing were 
not in a position to correctly guage the merits of the flowers staged. 
The same reasoning may surely be fairly applied to such a matter as the 
best date for the Show, and so your correspondent is put out of court 
upon his own ground of not exhibiting. 
“ D., Dea?,” then goes on to say that “ Since the retirement of Mr. 
Whitwell and Mr. T. B. Hall we have no amateur grower of the first 
class in the north ; ” but he entirely fails to recognise the fact that this 
is mainly caused by the date of the metropolitan Show being far too 
early for the northern men, who very naturally see no reason for sub¬ 
scribing as long as it remains impossible for them to compete at the 
Exhibition of the Society. Those who have been on the Committee for any 
length of time cannot fail to remember how strenuously Mr. Hall used 
to urge that it was impossible for the northerners to be ready, and it is 
an open secret that the loss of his support, both of the Society and of the 
Shows, has been caused by the persistent sticking to the late date. The 
same cause, I am informed, contributed largely to Mr. Whitwell’s with¬ 
drawal. If Mr. Pemberton’s motion were adopted, and so it made 
possible for the metropolitan Show to fall as late as July 9th once now 
and then, there would very speedily be no room for the question, 
“ Where are the Northern Exhibitors ? ” 
Proxy Voting. 
As this proposal seems to be beset with difficulties (though I cer¬ 
tainly think these are more imaginary than real), may I suggest that 
when an important matter, such as the proposed alteration of date, or 
the like, arises, a plebiscite of the members should be taken by post, and 
action determined accordingly. Post cards are cheap, and if this course 
were adopted members who are hindered by distance from coming up to 
vote would feel that they still had some voice in the affairs of the 
Society, and their interest would be maintained and increased. 
Teas in Mixed Classes. 
Closely connected with the early date of the metropolitan Show, a 
grievance has arisen as to boxes containing nothing but Teas and 
Noisettes winning the prizes in the mixed classes. There is a provision 
in the rules that Teas and Noisettes shall have no especial favour shown 
them, and yet in three mixed classes at the last Crystal Palace Show 
boxes of Teas only were allowed to win, while if a solitary H.P. dared to 
show itself among the Teas and Noisettes the stand would be at once 
disqualified. What about “No especial favour” after that? Under 
ordinary circumstances perhaps there would not be much hardship, but 
Teas are always at their best a fortnight before the bulk of H.P.’s, and 
when the latter are further handicapped by such a date as July 1st, it 
gives the Tea men a great pull, and I certainly think there should be a 
provision that in the mixed classes not more than one-third of the 
required number of blooms should be Teas. Bearing in mind the large 
and increasing provision which is made in the schedule for Teas only, 
such a regulation seems to be a measure of the barest equity.—J. B. 
Moss. 
It is a very doubtful point indeed whether in awarding prizes the 
dressing of a stand comes into the decision. Like “ W. R. Raillem ” 
(page 70), I cannot say that in judging the moss, or any substitute for 
the same, has ever caught my eye. Like the toiit ensemble of the stand, 
it seems to me it can only come into competition when two stands are so 
absolutely equal that there is no saying which is the better. Even then, 
excepting when a cup is at stake, it would be far better to add first and 
second prizes together, divide, and award equal firsts. This, however, is 
matter of opinion, and as such alone do I give it. I was not fortunate 
enough to see the Peterborough grower’s stand, but I have often thought 
that, given a good shade of green, that velvet would be the thing (my 
daughter, hearing this, says “ plush ”) ; but then, look at the expense. 
We cannot exhibit Roses without water, and every spot of water would 
show, for both velvet and “plush” would “setup their backs” at a 
drop. 
For Chrysanthemums I have used green baize ; that stands the wet, 
and I (but then it was my own child) did not think the baize by any 
means a bad substitute. Most of us have something to cover the boards. 
Mr. Molyneux, I think in his book on the Chrysanthemum, says they 
look better on the plain board than on anything else ; but I am afraid 
that most of our Rose boards, like a sehool child’s letter, would not 
“ bear inspection ” because pierced by different numbers of holes—any 
way, mine are ! It has occurred to me that worsted or wool might be 
made useful in this direction. The method that strikes me is this— 
say twenty threads of worsted, an inch off another twenty, these crossed 
by other lines of twenties, either tied at every inch where they cross or 
knotted, then when thus firmly tied let half the threads be cut through 
and fluffed out. But to come to moss, 
I rec illect in my early days a lady saying to me something like 
“ W. R. Raillem’s ” speech. “ What beautiful moss yours is 1 ” I certainly 
agreed with her ; and to my mind if moss is the thing that sort appears 
to me the best. I always used to get it off the large coping Bath stones 
on the top of walls. This moss lies close to the stone, is not more than 
half an inch thick ; may be got off with a blunt knife in large pieces 
where found, but is not very common. If dry and brown, I brought it 
home, plunged it into a bucket of water for twenty-four hours, then 
