May 0,189S. 
JOURNAL OF HORTICULTURE AND COTTAGE GARDENER. 
409 
In common with“W. H. L.,” and no doubt many more, I shall be 
glad to hear that these remarkable Vines continue to flourish and fruit 
as well as at present. 
There can be no doubt that had they been properly grown before 
being planted, and had they been planted earlier in the season than 
they were, they would have been even more remarkable than they 
have proved. 
Many Grape growers for market contend that it is more profitable 
to plant after cropping heavily every year, and replanting whenever 
signs of failing vigour are shown, than it is to take moderate crops 
and maintain the same Vines in vigour for many years. 
This is a matter open to debate, and some, of course, take one 
opinion and some the other ; but I think there is no diflierence of 
opinion regarding the desirability of having good Vines when planting. 
It is certainly a great advantage to have this, and when such poor Vines 
as Mr. Innes describes, are planted late in the season, it is almost 
miraculous when they do so well, and are able to produce such heavy 
crops the next season. 
The use of Grapes—well ripened and of good variety—is most bene¬ 
ficial to the health of the community, and that they are now so abundant 
is matter of considerable moment, as they can be had by all at reason¬ 
able prices. Indeed the producer has now come to consider the prices 
as rather too reasonable for the consumer, and rather too unreasonable 
for himself. 
No return to the good prices of bygone years can be looked for. 
Every year, doubtless, the quantity of Grapes sent to market will 
increase, and when we hear of such wonderful crops produced from such 
material in so short a time, it seems likely that the markets will be 
glutted in the future. 
The public, however, should learn to discriminate between well 
grown and indifferently grown Grapes. They are as different as night 
from day. Get a good well-grown and ripened Black Hamburgh, Muscat 
of Alexandria, Duke of Buccleuch, or Madresfleld Court, and you have 
splendid flavour and quality. Get a good Gros Colman or Lady Downe’s, 
grown and ripened with abundance of heat combined with judicious 
airing, and they are vastly different from the ordinary run of Black 
Alicantes grown in a cool atmosphere and with the proper qualities not 
developed, though of course at best the Alicante is a second-rate Grape, 
still it can be improved by proper culture. 
What we want in the future is—in addition to “ Express Grape 
growing ”—proper Grape growing, that is, such culture as will not only 
produce quantity but quality. 
There is nothing to prevent this being done, if only the right means 
are used, and then we should have the British public not only con¬ 
suming more Grapes, but realising what fine things they are, how health¬ 
giving, how refreshing, and how luscious.— John Thomson, Cloven¬ 
fords, _ 
I HASTEN to set Mr. Colebrook’s mind at rest by assuring him that 
I have made no mistake, and that every word I have stated to be per¬ 
fectly accurate. They are accomplished facts, and well known to many 
who saw the Vines and Grapes for themselves. I would refer Mr. Cole- 
brook to my first letter (page 328), and respectfully request him to read 
it again, as he is evidently labouring under a misapprehension by 
stating in his article on page 386 that my Vines carried ten and twelve 
bunches, each averaging lbs. What I did state was that the per¬ 
manent Vines carried seven bunches, averaging 2^ lbs., and the super¬ 
numeraries ten and twelve bunches, average weight 1J lb. 
When on a visit to Gordon Castle Gardens, Morayshire, late in the 
autumn of 1877, I saw there, under the able management of that grand 
old gardener, Mr. Webster, a house of young Vines which had been 
planted in the month of July, raised from eyes that season, and at the 
date of my visit, somewhere towards the end of November, these Vines 
had made a growth of upwards of 20 feet of splendid wood. I cannot 
say whether Mr. Webster fruited them the following season or not, but 
I certainly should have had no hesitation in doing so. 
I quite agree with your correspondent, “ E. M.’’ (page 386), that time 
alone will prove whether the cropping of young Vines at so early a stage 
of their existence will prove injurious in the long run. I do not think for 
a moment that Vines judiciously cropped under good management need 
suffer in the least degree. A large amount of discretion is needed and 
must be exercised, and the general condition and strength of the Vines 
taken into consideration, which must be the guide in determining the 
amount of fruit each Vine is capable of maturing; and then so much 
depends on the general management, including feeding. What is a suc¬ 
cess in one man’s hands frequently turns out a failure in the hands of 
others. I have a very grave doubt as to whether Vines at the age of 
fifteen, twenty, or thirty years, even under the best of management, 
would compare favourably with Vines of a younger growth. I know of 
some old Vines which are giving marvellous results in the hands of good 
gardeners ; but I think “ E. M.” is too able and experienced a gardener 
to admit that there are many Vines at the age of twenty or thirty years 
worth retaining as compared with young Vines. I find there are but 
few market growers in the present day who care to waste time with old 
Vines, and depend upon it they are not the men to throw away that 
which is most profitable. 
I think Mr. Geo. Bolas’ interesting letter (page 386) goes to prove that 
in his case, after fifteen years’ trial, the express system has been a 
success. Looking at this subject from a market grower’s point of view, 
it becomes a matter of vital importance in these days of keen com¬ 
petition. With small profits, quick returns become more and more a 
necessity, and I fear the signs of the times point to a still smaller 
margin of profit in the near future. It therefore behoves us to be up 
and doing. Grape growing in the present day to pay requires both 
quantity and quality and no waiting. Mr. Bolas gives us a cruel 
reminder of the “good old days” when Grapes realised 258. per lb. 
What a contrast with the prices of to-day ! “ Nemo ’’ also reminds us 
on page 375 of the Journal that in those days Grapes were confined to 
the table of the wealthy, but now they are within the reach of the poor. 
I will give, in the way of information asked for by “ E. M.,’’ a brief 
record of Vines planted in ten years ago, and in doing so I find it raises 
another important point—viz., the effect heavy crops of Grapes may or 
may not have when allowed to hang on the Vines through the winter 
and well into the months of February and March. I planted upwards 
of 300 permanent Vines in 1885. About 250 of these were one year 
old, the remainder were raised from eyes the same season. The first 
named were planted in April and the latter towards the end of May, 
with about 300 supernumeraries also raised from eyes that season, and 
planted when about 12 inches in length. When each had made about 
8 feet of growth they were stopped and again allowed to break, and 
long before the end of the season they had reached the top of the 
house. 
The following year the oldest Vines carried seven bunches each, and 
those we raised from eyes the previous season carried five and six 
bunches each and finished the fruit to perfection. As a test question 
as to the effect the early cropping may be supposed to have on Vines 
I will select one particular house, which has passed through what may 
be considered the most trying ordeal. The vinery is a steep-pitched 
span-roofed house, 100 feet by 21 feet, and was planted with eighty-two 
permanent Vines (Gros Colman), 2 feet 4 inches apart. The entire 
crop was allowed to hang each year, with one exception, into the months 
of February and March. I regret I cannot give the exact dates when 
the cutting of the crop in this house commenced each year except in 
1892, when a note was made of the weight of crop, but being the last 
house for eight consecutive years I give the following dates, taken 
from the day book, when the last was cut—viz., March 11th, 1887 ; 
March 7th, 1888 ; March 15th, 1889 ; February 24th, 1890 ; March 7th, 
1891 ; February 15th, 1892 ; February 27th, 1893 ; and January 30th, 
1894 ; and from the time the last of the fruit was cut until the house 
was started again did not exceed a fortnight, except in the years 
1892-94, when they had about a month’s rest, and these Vines are as 
vigorous and carrying and finishing as fine crops of Grapes as ever, but 
how long this may continue I am not going to predict. 
I thank Mr. Bolas for the compliment he pays me, and I hope at 
some future time to give a brief account of the house he refers to. 
—W. Innes, Derby. 
SPRING PRUNING. 
The leader, page 373, lays before readers clear facts that anyone 
living in the country may see for himself. It is a great pity that 
there are thousands of trees in exactly the condition as “ A Traveller ” 
describes. No doubt the owners and planters are very much to blame 
for allowing the trees to continue in such a miserable plight. 
There is also another side to the question that should not be lost 
sight of. I allude to the state of the trees when received from the 
nurseryman or fruit tree vendor. Some growers of trees for sale allow 
them to “ run up ’’ in a far too limited space of time to enable them 
ever to make really good trees until they are taken in hand by persons 
who have not the same reason for doing so. When fruit trees are 
allowed to remain 4 feet and more in height after the growth from the 
bud or graft at the first pruning, what can we expect such trees to do 
the year following ? 
Will one tree out of twenty managed in this manner ever make a 
decent bush or pyramid of either Apple or Pear? I say No without 
hesitation. The grower of this class who points with apparent pride at 
his Apple trees 5 feet high for the low price of 9d. each is not the man 
to teach would-be fruit growers how to manage their trees. As I have 
scores of times told cottagers and amateurs who required a few trees 
for their garden, far better pay 23. for a really good tree than the 9d. 
for such an one alluded to above. 
When we see inexperienced persons leaving 6 inches of growth on 
espalier trained Apple trees that already have spurs several inches long, 
how can we expect mismanaged young trees to be put into a better 
shape ? These are not simply matters of assumption, but hard facts, as 
I have experienced many times, and in two particular instances last 
month only. In one case trees had been received from a nurseryman of 
reputation for other goods than fruit trees evidently. They were of the 
class noted 5 feet high, with one or two straggling branches 1 foot from 
the ground. Above this a clear stem 3 feet long, and a few more 
branches at the top. Here was a specimen for a person void of 
experience to tackle. Now, “ Mr. Traveller,” you could hardly blame 
the owner if two years hence this tree had not grown into a good one, 
could you ? 
In spite of the amount of garden literature available, lectures and 
private tuition, it is astonishing what a mass of ignorance still exis's 
on fruit tree cultivation. Plain horticultural teaching in schools will 
do much towards enlightening the future generation, certainly. The 
present tyros must look to their own interests somewhat, and pick up 
information where they can. Nurserymen have the opportunity to 
educate this class; some of them do right well by sending out properly 
managed trees. I find this class of cultivator—cottager and amateur— 
is quick to follow example; none is better than a young fruit tree 
having a well-laid foundation. 
