OYSTER CrLTURE COMMISSION’—MINUTES OF EVIDENCE, 
3 
GO. If the demand were sufficient, then you would be able to plant all the oysters that are on the rocks for 
100 miles? Not the whole of the distance, because there is a good deal of it where we could not put 
oysters on. 
61. I mean suitable ground, fx*ee from any objections. Where you chiefly plant oysters, I presume, is in ^ 
sheltered spots where there is plenty of mud ? As little mud as possible—not sufficient to bury them. 
62. But you would not expect to get fat oysters offi the bare rock ? No, but I always endeavour to get a 
gravelly bottom. i ° ^ . b 
63. So as to prevent them from sinking. Would not abed of oyster-shells be the best of all? Yes, 
wherever we can get an old bed they always do very well. 
6-1-. With respect to the oysters on the rocks, not only in Sydney but in other parts of the Colony, can 
you suggest any mode by whicli the Government could utilize them — Do you think it would he desirable 
to license persons who, with their wives and children, might be able to make a very good living by knocking 
them off the rocks and selling them to others who would fatten them ? I do not think so ; it would not 
be very easy to get persons to go into the business. The plan I have endeavoured to carry out is this : I 
have told them to take a particular spot and ])lant the oysters so as to form abed, and I have olleredtobuy 
them wdien they had growii to a marketable size, but no one would go into it. 
65. Would not it be too long for working men, who expect to get ])aid their wages at once, to wait ? The 
people to whom I made the offer were men who Avere Avorking for me and getting paid for their work. 
66. But still it Avould be for Avages only that they Avould care to Avork—they Avould like to be paid at once. 
Perhaps if you Avero to put it to tliem in another form, and offer to pay them so much a bag foV all the 
oysters they knocked olf they would be glad of the Avork ? Then it Avould require a host of people to 
Avatch tliem. 
67. But do you consider it desirable that the Government should eoiiiinuo to lease those large areas for 
oysters ? I think the term of lease is too short. 
68. Hon. J. B. Wilson.'] The Chairmau is referring to the extent of ground leased. Is not the area too 
large to be comprised in one bloclc ? I Avill ansAver that question in this way : We have the same difficulty 
to contend Avitli here that tliey have in England, Avhere they cannot prevent the practice of going to each 
other’s ground and stealing the oysters. Even Avith all the care I take I get my oysters stolen, though I 
have men continually working and keeping a look-out, and 1 have an overseer at each place. 
69. No AA'onder, the area comprised in your lease being so A^ery extensive ; it is scarcely possible for one 
overseer to supervise 100 miles ? Of course Avhen I say 100 miles that is the measurement along the 
shore taking each turning. 
70. What I Avish to Icuoav is Avhether you think it should be the policy of the Government, in the interest 
of the public, to continue to lease these largo areas, or whether it Avould not be better for all parties to 
divide them and to lease smaller blocks ? I do not think so. 
71. You tlxink it Avould be better to continue to lease these large areas for short terms rather than smaller 
areas for longer terms ? No, I think the same areas should be leased for longer terms. I can only say 
that for my own part I Avoxild not talcc any lease a portion of Avhieh Avas sub-let. It is very difficult to 
get honest men on a river. Even in Sydney’’ there are plenty of people who Avill buy oysters that are 
stolen from me Avdio am a legitimate dealer. 
72. AVith regard to securing the ownership of oysters, you are aware that in the case of cattle and sheep 
the GoA'ernment take precautions to prevent ])ersonR from slaughtering or selling AAuthout a license, and 
neither cattle nor sheep can bo driven from one place to another Avithout a pass from the owner. Also 
Avith respect to the cutting of timber, licenses are required, and for otlier industries. Now supposing that 
the GoA^ernmeut — I am merely putting the question as one of public policy, the object of the Government 
in appointing this Commission being to obtain advice as to the best course to pursue in the future, Avhen 
the present leases, Avhich I believe have about eight years to run, have expired — Avere to throw these largo 
blocks open to tender in subdivisions of smaller areas, subject to such precautions as might be found 
necessary to prevent stealing ? Of course I can only speak for myself, and I can only say that I should 
not like to tender fortlie lease of any river portions of which Avere sublet. 
73. Do you think it is not possible for the Goveimmentto adopt such precautions as Avould prevent oyster¬ 
stealing—YOU seem to be afraitl that other persons Avould steal the oysters from your rocks: that is your 
idea, is it not ? Yes. 
74. But still you have a groat deal more than you can make use of? I am in hopes of haviug more ; I 
have not at present. 
75. AVliy, to knockoff all the oysters annually that stick to your rocks you would require many hundred 
men ? Yes. 
7G. So that your area is larger than one person could manage unless he Avent into it A^ery largely. There¬ 
fore, supposing the Government should take ])recaution8 to prevent stealing, Avould it not bo desirable to 
reduce the size of these blocks ? No, sir, I think not. 
77. Can you give the Commission any idea of the proportion of mud flats or fattening ground there is on 
the rivers which yon lease from the Government ? In NeAvcastlo I may say there is none ; in the 
llawkcsbury Biver, of course, there is a great deal. 
78. That is Avhere it is easy to get at the oysters—where they do not sinlc in the ground ? Yes. 
79. Are yon aware that oysters do not breed in fattening grounds ? No, sir, I am not. 
GO. That is the case in England, according to tlie evidence of some of the largest and most intelligent oyster 
inerchants? It is not tlie case here. 
Gl. One oyster merchant says that they never do, and Avere never known to breed on fattening ground ? 
That makes mo think there must ho a difference in the oyster. 
G2. Can you form any idea wliere the oysters come from that stick to the rocks ? I have no idea. 
G3. You have the same objection to the'leasiug of lattoning grounds in smaller areas that you have to the 
rocks ? Yes. 
G4. Have you any idea of the number of oysters that could be laid on one acre of ground? No, I could 
Dot tell you. 
G5. AVould you consider a million too anauy ? I have no idea of the number. 
GO. In England it is considered that about one million should be placed on an acre of ground for 
fattening? I could tell you by asking persons in my employ, but I have never calculated the number 
Diyself. AV^e lav them down ns singly as Ave can. 
G7. Have you ever considered the climate of Sydney in connection with the fattening of oysters—I 
mention 
Mr. P. J. 
Gibbine. 
