All three of those pieces such as institutional mechanism 
and will, public participation and information, and the scienti¬ 
fic community, and the definition of what is wrong and what we 
can do about it, are all integral to solving the problem which 
we*re here discussing today. 
So with that, I throw that out basically as an overview from 
my perspective in terms of management. Management doesn't mean 
what we discussed in the last portion of today's topic from the 
standpoint of at least Bill and I and our major roles here and 
William and Jim. In fact, this end of the table seems to be 
involved in an inter-tidal zone. Not the kind we talked about 
today. But the inter-tidal zone between policy-makers and 
scientists. 
We are day-to-day having to interpret for the policy-makers 
what you folks are telling us and taking abuse from them as to 
why we don t known more precisely to the tune of a 100 percent 
certainty what we're advising them to do. And from their side 
of it or from your side of it we're taking the shots sometimes 
that you are disenfranchised from the process. And from that 
standpoint trying to explain on the other side how far we can go 
and what we need to do to market your ideas and your science in 
order to turn it into public policy and financial support. 
So basically I think those are some components, Chris, of 
what would be helpful and why we need your help. The monitoring 
aspects that were just mentioned are a piece of that, and we 
certainly need to be able to answer it. But we can raise some 
of the guestions to you in terms of the answers we need in order 
to get support for what you want to do and why you want to do it 
better. 
Dr. D'Elia: Since I made the statement about disenfran¬ 
chisement, I suppose it's reasonable for me to jump in here. 
I think sometimes we have to remember some of the lessons 
... I'm not trying to be too harsh with this. But there have 
been other attempts in developing science-management relation¬ 
ships in other countries that have not been very successful 
because people have wished things to be true that aren't 
necessarily true. 
Dr. Morris: Right. 
Dr. D’Elia: And I refer specifically to the Lyseinko case 
in Russia. I'm not doing exactly the same thing. But there is 
danger in management that people wish things to be true and ex¬ 
pect the science to fall in line. And in defense of the scien¬ 
tific community, sometimes I feel that we are not given an ade- 
guate chance to help develop the guestions and say how we might 
go about answering them. 
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