28 
every armament we have against that war. Without question, nefarious 
individuals in many countries can take not only guns and arms and such 
explosive armaments, but nefarious individuals can use biological means 
and chemical means and apply them in warfare without question. But 
they don't need to clone Shiga toxin to do this. My lord, there are so 
many nasty agents that exist for the potential for warfare that we know 
about. But there's another war out there and I think it's our primary 
responsibility to cane up with the best armaments to fight that other 
Mr. Rif kin said he totally agreed that: 
"...we have a responsibility to develop vaccines that are going to be 
helpful in dealing with seme of these dreaded diseases. All I'm sug- 
gesting at this point is that we're at a stage where there is a convert- 
ibility with toxins for military purposes, and just as we're interested 
in solving the problem of diseases, shouldn't we be interested in 
setting dewn some guidelines, and protocols, and procedures for the 
potential convertibility of this technology. ..." 
Mr. Rifkin asked if there was: 
"...any roam for discussion at this ccmmittee of the NIH for taking a 
look at bow toxin-related experiments might be sanehew used for military 
purposes? If not, I won't bring it up again, if you think that there 
is no roan for this cannittee, or the NIH, to look into this matter in 
any way, shape, or form about the convertibility. I will not bring 
it up again if you so decide that that's your — the NIH's — position." 
Dr. McKinney said he: 
"...would make the observation, Mr. Chairman, that if indeed our concern 
would be predicated on convertibility of any technology to ultimate 
use in warfare that we should have started with the invention of the 
wheel and that we would, in fact, cease to do any and all research in 
the world because of the potential for converting any new technology 
to ultimate warfare use." 
Dr. McKinney said he wished to comment on the materials vhich accompanied 
Mr. Rifkin' s letter of May 15, 1984. He said he had found a number of 
gross technical errors in this material. He cited Mr. Rifkin 's statement 
that RAC is authorizing experiments. Dr. McKinney said RAC does not 
"authorize" experiments, rather it is an advisory body to the NIH. It is 
the prerogative of the NIH to accept or reject RAC's recomendations . 
Dr. McKinney felt the inappropriate use of the word "authorize" conveys 
to the public a false impression of RAC's function. 
Dr. McKinney said he could not accept Mr. Rifkin 's position that RAC is a 
participant in the potential convertibility of a technology to military 
applications. He said such a potential exists with any technology. The 
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