1906. 
THE RURAL NEW-YORKER 
519 
SLOPING THE HAY CARRIER TRACK. 
One of our readers wants to know if it will be possible 
to exteud the hay carrier track from the end of the barn 
and let it slope down to the load. He says he uses slings, 
and has thought of getting a steel track and supporting 
it by large cedar poles close about the track, and letting 
it run down nearly to the load. This w r ould require more 
rope, but would save nearly all the draw, and would not 
strain the rope or riggings. lie thinks too there might be 
other advantages in it. What do you think about it, and in 
your judgment would such a plan be possible, or prove any 
particular advantage? 
I am unable to understand how this plan could be 
made to work, even if it had advantages. A track can¬ 
not be supported from below and permit the load of 
hay either with fork or slings to carry under it. and I 
know of no way to support it from above. What is 
more, it could not possibly assist the movement of the 
load. No doubt the originator has some idea not fully 
understood in thq question, but as I see it the whole 
thing is impracticable. h. e. cook. 
I have never had a track built on a slant to the load, 
and do not think it would be practical, but if I had an 
idea it would, and wanted it that way, it would be but 
a short job to try it, and if it was not satisfactory could 
be easily changed. A track built on a slant would let 
the car come down so hard it would be liable to break 
something and oil drawing the load up I know of no car 
that would work On sharp tip grade Without binding arid 
wearing on parts df tiife car. If the inquirer does liot 
want to draw the ioad lip to the track there are cats 
that hold at any distance up froth the load, and can be 
tripped and will run to the motv at ally height. 
CLAfcfe ALLis. 
Ih niy judgment it would be feasible, and the slope 
of track is an excellent idea in my opinion, if the in¬ 
quirer has a plan of supporting the track sufficiently. 
My father had an equipment known as the Campbell 
carrier and track which worked on this principle: 
however, his was used inside, the track same principle 
as aiiy other until about over the big beam, and then 
sloped downward to near load in center of floor. This 
Was superior to ally other track I have seen, as the hay 
lifted and traveled with an even glide all tile way back, 
and never shook off hay. My double-action carrier with 
latch plate in center, when it unlatches goes with a 
jerk, and if the hay is not all very well bound will 
throw off some. h 8. H. 
Saegertown, Pa 
I personally never had any experience with track 
carrier in our barn, but have seen them used, and put 
the hay away after one. The idea is quite good, but I 
can see little saving, as the extra rope would count, and 
then too, the load would be quite a distance from tbe 
barn, and there would be more or less scattering, I should 
think; that is, if the barn was very high and tbe track 
was in the peak of the roof. I know of a track put up 
something like this, entirely in the barn, where the track 
comes down in that way, but could see little advantage 
in it. With the track inside it was fastened up by a rod 
through the ridge pole of the barn. It might be that 
in putting up the track as this inquirer suggests the 
ridge pole could be extended to form a support and so 
do away with the poles outside. I think probably that 
such a thing could be fixed, or a beam would be fitted in 
to the peak to extend out, and tbe drop in the track 
could begin back inside the barn and so have the load 
nearer to the barn. Of course it would make some dif¬ 
ference whether there was a large space above the 
great beams or not to allow of a suitable opening in 
gable of the building. What I should object to would 
be the poles, which if the land was in use would be in 
the way, and unsightly. j. u. hoxie. 
St. Paul says “All things are lawful for me, but all 
things are not expedient.” This is a case of the same 
kind, and if we substitute “possible” for lawful, you 
have my opinion. In the first place, the increased ex¬ 
pense for an extended track supported as suggested, 
would not warrant the outlay. 1 can see nothing gained 
except a slight saving in the first draft. Where slings 
are used, this is less than with a harpoon fork. A 
better way is to put a pulley next to tliei slings through 
which the draw rope runs to the overhead pulley. This 
will require a double length of rope from track to load 
and will necessitate the team going somewhat further, 
but it will just about decrease the draft one-half. I 
have used such a pulley for a number of years, and 
one horse can do what it formerly took two for. We 
unload a large load in this way, in four forkfulls, raising 
about 50 feet, and do it with one horse. The heavy 
draw is in separating the forkful from the load. If 
the hay is put in in sections, this can be reduced to the 
minimum. edward van alstyne. 
I never saw such an arrangement in operation, and 
cannot think of any advantage it would be. The horse 
would be obliged to travel farther every trip, and with 
the improved steel tracks in use around here one horse 
can lift the hay that can be taken care of in the mow 
to any advantage. Tracks and carriers used here have 
a double rope from carrier and pulley attached to fork. 
It seems to me the track sloping to load would be con¬ 
siderable expense to build; the posts would soon rot 
and be a continual expense, while the other way every¬ 
thing would be under cover. I have spoken to several 
farmers who have from 100 to 150 acres of haying each 
year. All seem to think it would be of no special 
advantage. The way haying is done on Luther Gates & 
Son’s farms, who have about 150 acres in hay is to start 
the mower, then the tedder in a couple of hours; as 
soon as dry enough the loader. Two teams and crews; 
one man follows on the rake and a boy at the barn with 
one horse to unload. They say the one horse can put 
the hay up as/ fast as it can, be taken care of in the 
mow. The tendency is to take too large forkfuls but 
if slings are used that difficulty could be overcome. In 
regard to tbe strain on the rope and riggings I believe 
the rope can be kept in repair or replaced with less 
expense than the track or posts can be kept up, and 
with less danger as the posts will be rotted some, but 
“I guess they will do this year,” and over they go. 
The track and pulleys always hold all that is generally 
asked of them. w. i. h. 
Conneautville Pa. 
LASTING EFFECT OF STABLE MANURE . 
I send you a hard nut to crack. The statements 
seem so contradictory, and are so important to me 
(I buy most of the manure and fertilizer that I use on 
a two-acre truck patch) that I should like to see them 
discitssed further. Does Mr. Greiner believe the same 
as lie did ifi 1881, when lie wrote his book? He says: 
“iii the heavy dressings of compost which . . . 
give to their lauds year after year . . . immense 
quantities of the mineral plant foods are put into the 
DOUBLE FLOWERED KERRIA, ABOUT NATURAL SIZE. 
Fig. 24. See Ruralisms, Page 522. 
soil, most of which are left to accumulate .... 
Only a small part of these minerals is removed again 
in the crops. . . . The bulk of these substances 
(accumulated mineral plant foods) is probably distrib¬ 
uted through the surface soil to the depth of, say, S 
or 10 inches. Consequently this whole surface layer 
is as rich in mineral plant foods as the very best of 
ordinary compost. Pmt while the soil itself may have 
become richer in mineral plant foods than even the 
barnyard manure itself, no corresponding accumulation 
of nitrogen has taken place.” —Greiner’s Practical Farm 
Chemistry (1891), pages 150 and 151. “Manure sup¬ 
plies a good deal of nitrogen, but lacks potash, and 
frequently, after some years of using manure, crops, 
make a good growth of vine, but does not make good 
seed or fruit.” — The R. N.-Y., page 369, Fertilizer in 
Kansas. 
Comment by The R. N.-Y. 
Mr. Greiner covers the ground in his reply. At the 
New Jersey Experiment Station it was found that after 
years of heavy manuring the soil contained very little 
increase of nitrates—that is, the soluble form of nitro¬ 
gen. There was, of course, an increase in the amount 
of insoluble nitrogen. This is available late in the 
season, when the soil becomes thoroughly warmed, but 
it has often been noticed that on this heavily manured 
soil nitrate of soda in small quantities pays. This is 
easily understood when we think that the nitrate is 
soluble at once, and supplies the plants during the cool 
weather—before the organic matter in the manure can 
decay. We must remember that stable manure contains 
both soluble and insoluble nitrogen, after a season in 
tbe soil a large part of the soluble form disappears. 
It is not yet clear where it all goes to, but it is not 
in the soil. Some is leached away through drainage, 
some passes off as gas, and some goes into an insohD 
ble form. So that while the total amount of nitrogen 
increases, that part which would actually feed crops is 
small. That is one reason why on some soils heavy 
dressings of stable manure year after year is not the 
most economical method of fertilizing. It is, we be¬ 
lieve, wiser in some cases to use less manure, a smalt 
quantity of nitrate of soda and more potash and phos¬ 
phoric acid. 
A Reply by Mr. Greiner. 
The older I grow the less I am inclined to feel “cock 
sure” about anything. Sometimes, for awhile all re¬ 
sults seem to point in one direction, when all at once 
another season’s outcome upsets all our earlier con¬ 
clusions. The mere presence of plant foods in the soil 
is not everything that concerns us in crop production. 
There are so many yet mysterious influences at work—• 
chemical, physical, bacterial, etc.—that we are often 
at a loss how to account for results one way or the 
other. I have learned to depend in my own operations 
here, more and more on stable manures and less on 
chemical fertilizers. It is a fact, however, that in the 
heavy applications made by market gardeners year 
after year, many times the amounts of phosphoric acid, 
potash and nitrogen are put into the soil than the crops 
remove, and that there is a gradual accumulation of 
these plant foods in the soil. Even in the best crops 
of onions, say 600 or 800 bushels per acre, only trifling 
amounts of the food elements are taken out, hardly 
more than a good crop of oats requires, and it cannot 
be claimed that in this crop, and still less in straw¬ 
berries and other small fruits, and in many other vege¬ 
table crops, we sell fertility. The plant foods applied 
remain to by far the greater portion in the land for 
the use of future crops, unless as perhaps in the case 
of nitrogen, a large part may be lost in the drainage 
water, or remain so locked up in chemical compounds 
as to be practically unavailable. It may be necessary 
to make annual applications of stable manure to secure 
best results in garden crops, but it has always seemed 
to me like shooting sparrows with cannon balls. I am 
using stable manure in somewhat more moderate doses, 
on my older garden patches, and still find that the ap¬ 
plication of a little nitrate of soda in early Spring, 
provides the available nitrogen needed at that time and, 
especially to beets, cabbage and cauliflower, radishes, 
lettuce, celery plants, onions, etc., is of considerable 
benefit. Later in the season, on these well-manured 
lands, the natural conversion of the nitrogen into ni¬ 
trates seems to be fast enough for all requirements, 
while I can seldom see any benefit from the application 
of mineral manures (superphosphate and muriate of 
potash) under these conditions. Cabbage and cauli¬ 
flower alone seem to make an exception, as they use 
up potash in rather large quantities, and are usually 
benefited by heavy applications of muriate, or other 
forms of potash, as well as of nitrate of soda. 
_ T. GREINER. 
THE INFLUENCE OF STOCK UPON SCION . 
Last Fall The R. N.-Y. had an interesting discussion 
on the influence of stock upon scion and top-grafting, 
written by several prominent horticulturists. This sub¬ 
ject, in my opinion, is of vast importance, esepcially in 
the Northwest, where it has had but little consideration. 
I have in mind several small Transcendent crab trees 
that were top-grafted 30 years ago with the Wealthy 
apple, and from the heavy crops of fruit these trees 
have borne I am forced to believe that the stock has 
some influence upon this variety. The fruit is generally 
high-colored, but in size they are not as large as the 
Wealthy is ordinarily. I have in several instances 
grafted a late-bearing variety upon a vigorous early- 
bearing stock, which brought the tardy variety into 
earlier bearing. I firmly believe that all slow growers 
and late-bearing varieties can be greatly improved by 
top-grafting upon hardy vigorous stock. But I am not 
yet convinced that by grafting a variety upon any stock 
its keeping qualities will be extended. I am grafting 
many varieties upon a hybrid red crab which is very 
hardy and is a vigorous tree, its fruit keeping a year 
and a half in an ordinary cellar. Should the keeping 
qualities of these varieites be extended beyond their 
limited time, I would then have a fair test. I have 
fully demonstrated that scions cut from bearing trees 
will fruit earlier than those taken from the nursery. 
My preference is always .to use scions taken from vig¬ 
orous bearing young trees. The McMahon was men¬ 
tioned in the article referred to as a stock to graft upon. 
I infer they had reference to the McMahon White. 
This variety, as far as I know, has never been used as 
a stock for top-grafting upon by any fruit grower or 
nurseryman in the Northwest. I regard it as being quite 
hardy, but not over vigorous, nor does it come into 
bearing early. It does not bear as early as the North¬ 
west Greening. Its persistent blighting caused us to dis¬ 
card it from our nursery several years ago. For in all¬ 
purpose stock for top-grafting upon the Hibernal is one 
of our best, and we know of none better, unless it is the 
Deickmann. which is the most vigorous stock we have 
ever used, and just as hardy as Hibernal, g. a. ivins. 
