98 
DISCUSSION ON ARTILLERY. 
to us in our tactical arrangements. At present we count that if we 
have five or six in number attacking the position to one we are bound 
to carry it. I do not believe it. My point is that at present it is 
assumed that if you have six infantry men against an artillery 
position without artillery fire they will carry it. 
The Chairman :—But then the supposition is that six attacking 
infantry men will be as well armed as the defending infantry. 
Lieut.-Colonel Hunter-Blair The supposition is Sir that they 
would shoot as well. But they did not at Omdurman. 
General Maurice, c.b. :—-I grant that ; but I am inclined to think 
that your artillery fire and infantry fire together would have made it 
impossible for that advance to be made against mere force. 
The Chairman :—Will anyone further speak to this discussion ? 
General Maurice, c.b. : —There is one point that Colonel Elmslie rais¬ 
ed in talking to me the other day. His impression is that if you could 
get the howitzer batteries up in the front part of the position (and 
so far it is a question of a tactical kind) and if they were properly 
protected by Maxims or some other form of local protection it would 
come to this, that the enemy must either silence the battery and capture 
it, or go. I mean that the fire is so appalling from the battery that it 
would be impossible but that the position should be taken unless the 
battery were so protected. Therefore it becomes an extremely interest¬ 
ing point in regard to the position of one of these high explosive 
batteries, they bring so much more destructive than any other power 
that the battery becomes an object that must be assailed by the enemy. 
The Chajrman :•—I do not know. One can hardly tell how far that 
would be borne out by actual experience, because, from some experi¬ 
ments that we have had in the open, I do not think we should get 
quite as good results from high explosive shells fired with percussion 
fuzes against troops in any sort of open formation as you would get 
with shrapnel. 
Captain May, E.N. :—I may remind you, Sir, that we have often 
had cases of 6-foot by 6-foot targets within 10 feet of high explosive 
shell that were not blown down. I am inclined to attribute the good 
effect at Omdurman to the confined spaces enclosed by walls. There 
is no doubt that if a shell gets amongst walls or bulk heads it sends 
things flying far more than in the open. 
The Chairman :—Of course the effect of high explosive shells against 
such dense masses of men as these Dervishes presented as targets for 
infantry or artillery would very likely have been awful. But that is 
altogether an exceptional feature in war is it not ? 
Colonel E. G. Slade, c.b. : —There was a story I heard. Sir, of one 
of these Lyddite shells bursting amongst some mounted Dervishes and 
they fell like a pack of cards. 
Lieut.-Colonel Elmslie :—I have been told by more than one person. 
Sir (I did not see it myself and I do not know anything about it) “ You 
ought to see those cavalry up there, they are still sitting in their 
saddles.” More than one person told me the same thing. 
Colonel F. G. Slade, c.b. :■—And another story I heard of another 
