Feb. 24, 1912 
FOREST AND STREAM 
253 
Rules at the Olympic Games. 
Pittsburgh, Pa., Tan. 18.— Editar Forest (I'td Stream. 
Your letter of Jan. ‘15, relative to trapshooting at the 
Olympic games, is at hand, and very carefully noted. _ ^ 
I am not familiar with the standard rules governing 
trapshooting on the other side of the Atlantic Ocean, 
consequently I do not know how they correspond with 
the rules issued by the Olympic committee. If said 
standard rules call for “the butt of the gun to be held 
between the hips and armpits,” T think the commitif^ i? 
well within its rights in enforcing the so-called field 
position,” but if this rule was manufactured for the oc¬ 
casion, I think it is entirely wrong to enforce it, and 
pressure should be brought to bear upon the committee 
to change the rule. 
In this connection. T am a firm believer in adhering 
to rules adopted, and I believe in enforcing them as 
long as they are in existence, always provided that the 
rules are not specially made for an unfair pupose; 
therefore, T cannot see how this particular rule is not 
fair to Americans and others, who are accustomed to 
hold their guns in anv position. \\ e must admit the 
right of our fellow sportsmen on the other side of the 
Atlantic to make rules of their own, the same as we do 
in America, and we should, therefore, be governed ac¬ 
cordingly. If the trapshooting fraternity on this side of 
the Atlantic do not approve of the rules governing, they 
can exercise that great American privilege which we all 
have of not making entry for the competition. 
Personally, T do not approve of the “field position” 
rule, as it leads to bickering and mucb ill-feeling when 
strictly enforced by the referee. A similar rule was in 
force in America many years ago, but it was changed 
to the nresent rule on account of the wrangling it en¬ 
gendered. With a “quick man” at the firing points, the 
question was nearly always raised as to whether or not, 
in placing the gun to his shoulder, the contestant “beat” 
the target’s appearance in tlie air. I for one, would not 
care to fill a referee's position with this rule in force. 
In mv opinion, the “two shots at each target” stipu¬ 
lation, so far as the scores made bv trapsbooters on this 
side of the Atlantic are concerned, will figure little, if 
any, in the final results. They have been so drilled 
and accustomed to deliver with such deadly effect the 
one shot allowed by our rules, that I very much doubt 
the use of two shots will make any material difference 
in the scores made bv them. By this I mean that, 
knowing they have two shots at each target, they will 
become somewhat careless in delivering the first shot, 
and the result will be the percentage of extra_ misses 
with the first shot, due to this carelessness, will fully 
offset any extra breaks made with the second shot, the 
final resiilts being about the same as they would have 
been with the use of only one shot. The records of the 
Interstate Association covering those events conducted 
by it under the rule allowing the use of “two shots at 
one target” will bear me out in this opinion. 
Elmer E. Ishaner, Sec’y-Treas. 
Interstate Association. 
Wilmington, Del., Jan. 17.— Editor Forest and Stream: 
In reply to your favor asking my opinion as to how I 
like the cnforcin.g of the “field positioii” at the traps, 
would say, that across the Atlantic practicallv everybody 
adopts the field position at the traps, and in fact, I_ don’t 
believe they care anything about “gun in any position.” 
They have also had two verv forcible lessons as to 
what .\mericans can do with the gun at the shou’der; 
One lesson was the trip of the American team to T'.ng- 
land in 1901; *he other was the victory of W. IT Ewing, 
of Montreal, Canada, at the Olympic games in 1908. The 
exnlanation of the practically universal adoption of the 
“field position” on the other side of the water, is the 
fact that trapshooting there is regarded more as practice 
for “field shooting” than as a sport by itself. 
"Von also ask me what my opinion is of the “two 
shots at each target” stipulation. This really means, as 
I take it. that you can fire two shots if you want to. 
You surely would not want, and would not be forced 
to shoot two shots if you broke the target with the first 
fired at each clay pigeon,” it really means “two shots are 
fired at each clay pigeon,” its really means “two shots 
mav be fired at each clay pigeon.” 
Clause 7, which reads, “The compet'tor must not 
shoulder his gun and take sight, or rest the butt against 
his shoulder, before the clay pigeon thrown tip has 
appeared in sight,” seems to me a little ambiguous. 
Translated literally, it apparently means that a man 
must not align his gun over the trap and then drop it 
from his shoulder so that the butt is held “between the 
hips and the armpits.” If this is the case, all members 
of the proposed American team will have to be very 
careful as to how they handle their gun at the score, 
or run risk of disoual'fication. Probably the idea of 
those who drew up the Olympic rules w'as that no sports¬ 
man woujd put his gun to his shoulder and then take it 
down again while a dog was pointing a covev. 
Under Section 9, which defines what are “no birds,” 
the shooter is given the right to refuse a broken target, 
but there is no provision apparently made for the re¬ 
fusal of a target throv/n at an appreciable time after the 
shooter has called “pull.” 
One of the most important rules or regulations gov¬ 
erning the shooting at Stockholm, Sweden, is that which 
contains the definition of an amateur. After stating that 
“the competitions are exclusively confined to amateurs 
according to the following definition,” it goes on to 
say, “An amateur is_ one who has never (a) shot in 
public, or been specially occupied witfi in=iruci‘'^n in 
shooting with the intention of thereby earning his liv¬ 
ing; (b) taken part in an open competition for profes¬ 
sional shooters; (c) sold, pawned, hired out, or ex¬ 
hibited for payment any prize won in a competition; 
(d) been engaged at a gunsmith’s, and there been 
speciallv occupied with sighting and adiusting weapons.” 
Of the above, section b is probably the most im¬ 
portant. Edward Banks. 
Ossining, N. Y., Jan. 16.— Editor Forest and Stream: 
In looking over the set of rules you sent me, can see a 
number of pitfalls. The part that says a man must hold 
A 
SAUER 
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EVERY TIME 
FOR TRAP OR FIELD SHOOTING 
Perfectly Balanced 
Shooting and Workmanship Unsurpassed 
Sdiovccliiig ^ Ciale^ 
302-504 Broadway (Cor. Duane st.) New York City 
his gun away from the shoulder will of course work an 
injustice to the Yankee team; most other countries 
employ gun below armpit position. Why don’t Charlie 
Billings try to arbitrate and have the same thing ob¬ 
tain that was tried when our team took a fall out of the 
British—allow them two barrels and hold gun any way 
they choose? “If a marksman discharges both barrels 
practically at once,” is going to cause trouble. Again, 
a mrn might be slow on his first barrel, for some reason 
or other, and he may then refuse to fire the second and 
get another target. The rule that causes a man to fire 
a blank in tbe first barrel or fire a loaded shell in the 
air can only be justified by tbe ammunition people. I 
am afraid our boys will be up against a hard game if 
that shoulder business is not removed. 
Charles G. Blandford. 
New York, Jan. 17.— Editor Forest and Stream: Reply¬ 
ing to your letter of yesterday, will say that I have really 
not given the Olympic question the consideration it 
deserves, simply because I have been too busy. How¬ 
ever, since you put the question to me, and were good 
enough to inclose the rules, I have taken advantage of 
the opportunity and time to read it over more carefully, 
and must say that although their ideas of target shooting 
are much behind the times in “our way” of thinking, 
yet it is a fair way of shooting, and no doubt those who 
are thoroughly acquainted with that style enjov it fully 
as much as we do our rapid-fire system. They have 
their own rules, which are perfectly fair in their way, 
and I believe that shooters from other countries going 
there to compete for prizes should do so accepting those 
rules without a kick or a murmur. 
So far as the “two shots at each target” rule is con¬ 
cerned, I am frank to say that I do not believe it will 
be of any material benefit to our American target shoot¬ 
ers, nor do I believe that tbe “second shot” will beat 
them. The “field position” will bother most of the 
American shooters at this target shooting game, yet I 
see no reason why an international event such as this, 
conducted under rules adopted by an association, to 
govern this event, should be changed to suit any one 
particular class of shooters. 
On the other hand, if any changes can be suggested 
by you, and could be made without causing any re¬ 
flections on the good sportsmanship of our American 
shooters, I would say that rules on the lines of those 
adopted by the Interstate Association would eventually 
prove the most satisfactory to all concerned, and those 
who now enjoy the field style of shooting at targets 
would perfect their trapshooting. Field shooting and 
trapshooting each is in a class by itself, and should be 
conducted under separate style and rules. 
I hope “our boys” will go over there, meet them at 
their own game, beat them on their own “dunghill” and 
keep up the unblemished reputation of good American 
sportsmanship, win or lose, and not raise a “howl” about 
conditions. Carl von Eengerke. 
Brookston, Ind., Jan. 22. — Editor Forest and Stream: 
Replying to your favor of the 15th inst, I beg to say that 
I fanev American trapshooters are entirely unfamiliar 
with “field position” shooting at the trap. However, 
when you go to Rome you must do as they do in Rome. 
Whatever position is enforced, it is my opinion that the 
American trapshooter can more than hold his _ own 
against any other shooters in the world. There is no 
doubt that the stipulations “two shots at each target 
and field position” are aimed directly at American and 
Canadian shooters, who have won at recent Olympic 
games. The Americans are in a class by themselves in 
the trapshooting game, and will bring borne the bacon. 
W. C. WOOTTON, 
Sec’y Buffalo Audubon Club. 
The Forest and Stream may be obtained from any 
newsdealer on order. Ask your dealer to supply you 
regularly. 
Mulberry Grove Gun Club. 
Mulberry Grove, Ill., Feb. 13. —We had to make 
ready for to-day’s shoot in a hurry, therefore never ex¬ 
pected very much shooting; but the “fur was dying 
all afternoon, just the same. Warmer atmospheric con¬ 
ditions brought out fifteen shooters, and three events 
were shot. . , , 
Arthur Killam (professional) was with us, and while 
he was unable to “break ’em all,” his presence inspired 
Ed. Hartley to even surprise himself by disfiguring the 
maps of 46 clay twisters out ,of 50 shots. 
We had several new shooters with us to-day, who 
made good scores considering the fact that it was the 
initial try-out for some of them. , , , . 
Our regular weekly shoots will be held just as soon 
as the weather permits. Scores of to-day; 
Events; 
Targets: 
E D Hartley 
H K Ingram 
F E Martin. 
F Ellis . 
♦A Killam .. 
Y . Ingram .. 
B Ellis . 
F McKean .. 
12 3 
Events: 
12 3 
25 25 25 
Targets: 
25 25 25 
24 22 .. 
Lea Davis . 
19 .. .. 
19 20 .. 
Wm Lilligh . 
.. 17 .. 
19 15 2u 
E E Page. 
11 .. .. 
17 16 .. 
Dr Poindexter.... 
11 .. .. 
8 21 19 
W E Davis. 
6 .. .. 
10 17 .. 
0 T Davis. 
.. 4 .. 
10 lu .. 
E R Enloe. 
.. ..21 
12 12 12 
,, , 
F. E. Martin, Sec’y. 
Paleface Gun Club. 
Wellington, Mass., Feb. 14.—Dr. E. A. Gleason, just 
back from the South where he did some trapshooting, 
won the Valentine’s Day matinee shoot of the Palefaces 
this afternoon with 95 against 93 made by Porter E. 
Osborne, of Somerville. r-, .u 
The weather conditions were fine. Dr. Gleason, the 
high gun for the day, made three straight 20s in the 
second, fourth and fifth rounds of the 100-target match. 
The summary: 
Gleason 
Osborne 
Frank . 
Edwards 
Sibley . 
Sweet .. 
95 
Burnes . 
. 87 
93 
Clarke . 
. 86 
92 
Newton. 
92 
Proctor . 
. 82 
91 
Low . 
90 
Jones . 
Pillow Gun Club. 
Pillow, Pa., Feb. 10.—Weather conditions, outside 
zero, were ideal. The shoot was largely attended by the 
citizens of Pillow, dhe scores: 
H V Runk. 51 
J A Bingaman 
I E Bingaman 
J Bingaman .. 
D M Bohner 
J A Shaffer... 
D W Reitz .. 
86 
78 
70 
79 
84 
84 
C Messner . 61 
D Willard . '5 
Geo West, Sr. il 
J N Buffington. 75 
C M Schmeltz. G4 
J. A. Bingaman, Sec’y. 
Plattsville Gun Club. 
Plattsville, Wis., Feb. 11.— Ed. Billmeyer went his 
first 36 straight in the 50 bird match, winning- the match. 
The scores: 
Events: 
Targets: 
Ed Bilmeyer 
B Doescher . 
E H Long.., 
P Karrman 
1 2 Events: 1 2 
60 25 Targets: 50 25 
47 19 J C David. 43 .. 
40 22 T J Bridges. 42 .. 
35 19 Capt Eberhardt ... 32 .. 
36 16 W Karrmann . 31 .. 
T. J. Bridges, Sec’y. 
