Wisconsin State Agricultural Society. 251 
President Bascom. I don't care what its intrinsic value is, for 
there is a difference between small coins and large ones. If it was 
not worth half a cent you could pay a penny debt with it, but if it 
was an eagle and lacked the true value, you could not pass it for a 
moment for more than its true value. But people will not resist 
the fraud in the small matter of a penny if it is not of full value. 
We have been able to issue a nickle five-cent piece because that was 
so little a thing. We can gouge people on a small scale and they 
will not stop to resist it. 
Mr. Stilson - . Is it worth one-fourth af a cent ? 
Mr. Bascom. That don’t make any difference. 
Mr. Stilso^. What right would the Government have to stamp 
that commodity for four times what it is worth, and compel me 
to take it for my wheat, when it don’t stamp my wheat or my ox at 
four times its present value? 
Mr. Bascom. But let me ask the gentleman up to what sum 
does the Government allow that to be a legal tender? Only for a 
little contemptible sum; as I say, it will condescend to a small shave. 
Secretary Field. I am very happy that President Bascom has 
given us the benefit of his knowledge upon this money and interest 
subject; indeed, I invited the professor and others to come here 
and participate in this discussion. I was well aware of the line of 
argument which those gentlemen would pursue. 
Now, sir, the President of the University here stands up and says 
that paper money is not money. He says it is a lie upon the face 
of it. I want to show, gentlemen, to you, as I believe I can, and to 
the world, that the gold base upon which he and nearly all other 
educators stand, is to-day and ever will be a base deceit, a fraud, and 
a lie, while three to ten times the amount of paper is issued to one of 
gold with which to redeem the same. It has been so in all ages of 
the world and it will be, unless you will simply issue one dollar in 
paper for one dollar in gold in the treasury. 
# 
I wish to repeat what I said in my paper. “ Gold as a basis says 
the capitalist and speculator, and gold bearing bonds based tlieron. 
In this gold basis, bonds, &c., lie hidden the most dangerous system 
of money ever instituted. When business is prosperous and labor 
is profitably employed, then we enjoy prosperity. But how is it 
when stagnation in business from any cause ensues? When the 
storm sets in, gold is hoarded and the people are bankrupted and 
