6 jo 
FOREST AND STREAM. 
[Oct. 17, 1908. 
Trouble with Long 20-Bore Cartridges. 
A further installment of experiments has been made 
with 20-bore cartridges 2%in. lon^, and although nothing 
final has yet been decided, it will be best to place the 
reader in possession of all the available information, in 
order that future reports may not be incumbered by an 
undue number of experimental results. The trouble 
which prevents the giving of a satisfactory verdict in 
connection with these cartridges is an inveterate ten¬ 
dency to balling of a particularly objectionable character. 
In one instance an enormous splash the size of a five 
shilling piece was noticed on the plate, and closer ex¬ 
amination showed that a crater bad been formed having 
a depth of about the tenth of an inch. The plate 
measures 3-16in. thick, and it has been incessantly bom¬ 
barded with all sorts of loads from duck guns and so 
forth, including .22 rifles, yet the 20-bore has produced 
the first visible indentation of the surface. By counting 
the number of pellets on the target, and making a liberal 
allowance for unaccountables, the ball cannot possibly 
have consisted of less than seventy pellets, say, about 
viz., 109grs., which is the weight of a fairly power¬ 
ful rifle bullet. The Greener .310, for instance, weighs 
125grs. It is not, therefore, from excess of caution that 
the recommendation of the long 20-bore cartridge is 
withheld pending further investigation. 
It will not be surprising if the limit of adaptability of 
modern smokeless powders proves to have been reached 
with the long 20-bore cartridge. In the wildfowl experi¬ 
ments with 10-bores a most excellent series of charges 
was standardized for the 2%in. length of case. The 
longer 2%in. cartridge proved incapable of carrying the 
extra load for which its increased capacity provides space, 
and this was because the pressures ran too high. Like¬ 
wise the 3in. 12-bore thin brass case, although much 
used,_ seldom contains more shot than can be comfort¬ 
ably inserted into the paper tube variety. The resistance 
set up against expulsion would naturally rise in a very 
high level when the increased length of shot column is 
associated with a small caliber of tube. Therefore, while 
the 2M<in. 20-bore comfortably holds shot charges up to 
13-16oz., the long 20-bore gives decided trouble with 
15-16oz. charges. Smokeless powders earn their reputa¬ 
tion on the_ strength of good behavior in ordinary 12-bore 
214in. cartridges, and they are undoubtedly specialized 
chiefly for the use of light loads. These require a substantial 
gas pressure in the presence of a short column of shot, 
say, loz., which occupies a space in the cartridge of 
about Gin. First-class behavior can, nevertheless, be ob¬ 
tained from 15-16oz. in a 16-bore, which occupies nearer 
.7in. 
The belief that special virtues exist in the presence of 
long columns of shot in a reduced caliber of cartridge has 
resulted in the recent tests with long 20-bores. If there 
is any virtue in a long case, the extra capacity should 
enable something approaching 16-bore charges to be 
used. A 15-16oz, shot charge occupies a .8in. length of 
column in a 20-bore tube, this being nearly equal to 
l%oz. in a 12-bore. The last named is a permissible 
charge in a 2%in. cartridge; consequently the excessive 
pressure experienced under parallel conditions in 20- 
bores must be attributed to the friction adding propen¬ 
sities of the small diameter of tube. Both Mr. Leeson 
and the correspondent who described his experiences last 
week appear to have encountered the same difficulty, 
for each of them admits the existence in their recom¬ 
mended combinations of special conditions tending to 
diminish the results below the level which is considered 
standard with other bores. In the experiments which 
have now to be recorded charges were ultimately dis¬ 
covered which gave an admissible level of pressure with 
a velocity not unduly on the low side. The balling 
which disqualified the charges so arrived at may have 
been due to some defect in the barrel, and this will form 
the subject of special inquiry; but meantime the facts 
indicate a special tendency in the direction of a defect 
which might have serious consequences to beaters or 
others apparently a safe distance from the line of fire. 
The first set of experiments consisted in repeating in 
our own special barrel the test of velocity of some 20- 
bore cartridges remaining over from some which Mr, 
Leeson forwarded last April, the same containing 34grs. 
of Schultze and loz. of shot. These gave an average 
v el ° c ity over 20yds.. of 974 f.s., but as the lowest round 
was 907, and the highest 1054, the charge was regarded 
as tending in the direction of irregular results. Very 
little resistance can be obtained from the lists of loads 
recommended by the companies for their respective 
powders. The Schultze people recommended 33grs. of 
powder, /^oz. of shot, and a %in. felt, which represents 
practically no compression whatever, y 2 in felt being 
nearer the required thickness. The E.C. charge, 28grs., 
y 8 oz. %in., requires exactly a %in. felt in place of the 
smaller one recommended. Empire with 27grs., %oz., 
%in. comes nearer the mark, but the compression would 
probably run a little on the high side. A series of 
preliminary tests were made as follows: 
Table 1—Tests with charges for 20-bore 2%m. car¬ 
tridges, using Schultze powder: 
36grs., 15-16oz., 
1. 4.67 tons. 
2. 4.88 tons. 
3. 4.41 tons. 
%in. felt. 
4. 1023 f.s. 
5. 1023 f.s. 
6. 1034 f.s. 
Av. 4.65 tons. Av. 1027 f.s. 
37gr., %oz„ %in. felt.—Repeated. 
7. 3.09 tons. 10. 4.50 tons. 13. 1060 f.s. 
8. 3.68 tons. 11. 4.55 tons. 14. 1027 f.s. 
9. 4.30 tom. 12. 4.57 tons. 15. 1090 f!s! 
Av. 4.54 tons. Av. 1059 f.s. 
I lie above results show that the charges for about 16- 
bores are unsuitable for long 20-bores, by reason of the 
high pressures obtained. The right-hand series of results 
round 7 to 15, were obtained with an increase of powder 
and a decrease of shot, this particular combination being 
adopted to secure a favorable degree of compression. 
Ihe apparently abnormally high pressure in round No 9 
led to repeating the test, when it was found that the 
high pressure was normal and the two preceding low 
ones abnormal. The slight reduction of pressure which 
the alteration of charge had produced failed entirely to 
bring the charges into conformity with the required 
standard. Although 37grs. is necessary to impart a full 
velocity to a %oz. charge, and fire an extra l-16oz. of 
shot. The experiments were continued a fortnight later, 
and the following results with modified charges were 
obtained: 
Table 2.—Further pressure results with sundry charges 
for 20-bore, 2%in. cartridges: 
Schultze. 
34grs., ll-16oz., %in. 
1. 3.43 tons. 
2. 3.09 tons. 
3. 3.14 tons. 
Full load. Light load. 
35grs.,15-16oz., %in. 35grs., 13-16oz.,y2in 
4. 3.70 tons. 7. 3.53 tons. 
5. 3.78 tons. 8. 3.58 tons. 
6. 3.55 tons. 9. 3.25 tons. 
Av. 3.22 tons. 
Av. 3.68 tons. 
Av. 3.45 tons. 
Full load. 
27grs., 15-16oz., %in. 
10. 3.65 tons. 
11. 3.72 tons. 
12. (4.37) tons. 
13. 3.55 tons. 
E.C. 
Light load. 
27grs., 13T6oz. t/^in. 
14. 3.88 tons. 
15. 3.80 tons. 
16. 3.95 tons. 
Av. 3.64 tons. Av. 3.88 tons. 
The above results made it possible to adopt, as giving 
a safe pressure, 35grs. as a standard charge for powders 
of the 42gr. class in combination with 15-16oz. of shot. 
This is lgr. less than the short 16-bore charge, and 2grs. 
more than the short 20-bore charge. The 15-16oz. load 
of shot was also adopted as being %oz. lighter than the 
short 20-bore load, and the same as the short 16-bore load. 
The diminished powder and similar amount of shot shows 
that for pressure reasons a diminished velocity must be 
expected. As regards 33gr. powders, 27grs. and 15-16oz. 
satisfies the necessary tests, while at the same time leav¬ 
ing the. user free to specify the alternative %oz. charge, 
which is employed in combination with a 7-16in. felt. 
The charges being thus dominated by the necessity to 
observe certain restrictions of pressure, the velocity was 
measured, not so much with a view to readjusting the 
charges if the results proved insufficient, but merely to 
record the behavior, which, good or bad, cannot very 
well be altered. 
Table 3.—Velocity over 20yds. with provisionally adopted 
charges for 20-bore, 2%in. cartridges: 
Schultze— 
35grs. 
15-16oz. 
%oz. 
13-lGoz. 
1 . 
980 
f.s. 
4. 
1030 
f.s. 
7. 
1087 
f.s. 
9 
1010 
f.s. 
5. 
1021 
f.s. 
8 . 
1065 
f.s. 
3. 
1010 
f.s. 
6. 
1057 
f.s. 
9. 
1076 
f.s. 
Av. 
1000 
f.s. 
Av. 
1036 
f.s. 
Av. 
1076 
f.s. 
10. 
980 
f.s. 
13. 
1040 
f.s. 
16. 
1070 
f.s. 
11. 
1020 
f.s. 
14. 
1041 
f.s. 
17. (1015) 
f.s. 
12. 
1000 
f.s. 
15. 
1050 
f.s. 
18. 
1065 
f.s. 
19. 
1045 
f.s. 
Av. 
1000 
f.s. 
Av. 
1044 
f.s. 
Av. 
1060 
f.s. 
The above values show that with full shot charges 1000 
f.s. is the standard velocity for these long 20-bore car¬ 
tridges. Something nearer the 1050 f.s. standard is ob¬ 
tained with the intermediate %oz. charge, while a rather 
higher velocity follows from the use of the light charge, 
which can, however, quite easily be used in the short 
length of case. A preliminary run of pattern tests was 
made for the purpose of testing the suspicion, almost 
amounting to certainty, that balling was unduly frequent; 
that is to say, in maying the 20yds. velocity test, the 
target which arrests the charge after it has passed through 
the velocity wires was carefully whitewashed after every 
shot, and small aggregations of pellets were constantly 
noticed. The experience was repeated in the subsequent 
pattern tests, and the letter B was added to each record 
where a ball obviously larger than could be formed by 
three pellets was noticed. In round No. 19, distinguished 
by an asterisk (*), the very large ball referred to at the 
commencement of this article occurred. A multiplicity 
of B’s indicate a correspondingly multiplicity of the ob¬ 
jectionable splashes. 
Table 4.—Pellets in the 30in. circle at 40yds. using 20- 
bore, 2%in. cartridge: 
15-16oz. (253 %oz. (236 13-lGoz. (219 
pellets). 
pellets). 
pellets). 
1. 
101 B 
6. 
95 
11. 
91 
9 
124 
7. 
107 
12. 
100 
3! 
120 
8. 
120 
13. 
101 
4. 
128 B 
9. 
84 
14. 
113 
5. 
115 B 
10. 
89 BBB 
15. 
95 
Av. 
11S = 47% 
Av. 
99 — 42% 
Av. 
100 = 46% 
E.C. 
16. 
76 BBB 
21. 
77 
26. 
89 BB 
17. 
112 
22 
98 
27. 
91 
18. 
124 
23. 
102 B 
28. 
107 
19. 
75* 
24. 
99 B 
29. 
no 
20. 
136 BB 
25. 
126 
30. 
106 B 
Av. 
105 — 41% 
Av. 
100 — 42% 
Av. 
101 = 46% 
It will be remembered that the barrel under notice, 
before the chamber was lengthened to 2%in., gave a very 
regular 50 per cent, of the total pellets in the 30in. circle 
at 40yds. The decided falling off from this standard pro¬ 
vides further evidence of the lack of perfection running 
through the results which have been recorded with such 
a wealth of detail.—The Field (London). 
Registered Tournaments. 
Pittsburg, Pa.—Tournaments registered with the In¬ 
terstate Association during the week ending Oct. 10 are 
as follows: 
Nov. 5-6. Coon Rapids (la.) G. C. V. B. Asher, Sec’y. 
Nov. 8—New Athens, Ill.—Egyptian G. C. Jas. H. 
Koch, Sec’y. 
Nov. 29.—Milwaukee, Wis.—Badger G. C. Ed. F. Leidel 
Sec’y. 
Elmer E. Shaner, Sec’y-Mgr. 
arkersburg Gun Club. 
Parkersburg, W. Va.-—The scores of the tournament, 
held here Oct. 8 and 9, are as follows: 
Oct. 8, First Day. 
Events: 123456789 10 
Targets: . 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 
L B Fleming ... 18 17 17 19 17 19 19 20 19 19 
G E Painter .... 19 20 17 17 17 20 19 18 1 8 17 
E O Bower . 17 20 19 16 17 18 19 18 17 19 
T A Neill . 18 14 16 16 19 19 15 17 19 16 
II Hickman . 15 13 16 19 17 17 17 15 17 18 
W R Chamberlainl7 20 18 20 17 20 15 16 17 19 
H T Funk .13 19 17 18 18 19 14 18 19 15 
*H W Heikes .. 17 19 18 20 17 18 17 20 17 15 
Ed Cain . 18 17 17 16 19 19 18 16 17 20 
T M Mclntire .. 17 18 14 13 14 17 18 15 15 15 
W A VViedebusch 14 16 15 19 18 18 13 14 14 17 
*L J Squier .... 17 17 18 18 16 19 17 16 17 18 
* R Taylor . 19 20 19 20 19 19 20 17 19 18 
*E N Taylor .. 
D C Watson .. 
C L Slayton ... 
F T Hopkins .. 
S T Mallory .. 
W J Rathbone. 
J W Stewart ... 
C P Dudley 
15 18 14 14 19 16 18 18 18 12 
16 19 18 16 14 17 15 18 12 17 
15 17 16 14 16 18 15 14 14 14 
18 20 15 19 16 17 15 17 14 13 
13 16 15 18 16 17 16 17 18 18 
13 16 16 16 16 15 14 17 13 16 
14 16 14 15 13 15 14 12 13 14 
16 19 15 17 17 18 19 13 18 18 
*W D Goshorn .17 16 18 19 16 11 18 17 17 17 
C B Brown 
W C Mawhinner. 16 
F O’Connor 
J F Pauli . 
13 15 12 15 18 13 16 16 15 15 
13 10 11 10 16 12 10 11 8 
12 13 18 15 12 11 13 16 17 9 
17 IS 11 15 15 17 16 17 14 15 
J B Knapp .14 15 13 17 13 11 18 14 17 16 
II O Nutt 
F Edwards . 
Walter Hennig 
G Steinbauer 
Hart Stanbery 
S B Hamlin . 
Fred Shattuck 
Dr Wm Shattuck 16 
J K Nelson.16 
15 IS 18 13 17 17 16 16 19 17 
18 19 19 18 18 18 16 19 18 17 
12 17 16 16 15 15 17 14 17 10 
14 18 16 15 14 19 16 16 16 11 
17 18 17 17 19 18 17 18 16 17 
15 14 15 12 13 12 16 15 15 15 
17 18 19 17 18 18 18 20 15 18 
16 18 19 17 17 17 14 18 17 
15 15 16 18 16 16 18 17 11 
T S Bibbee .:.... 17 18 16 18 16 18 18 15 16 16 
P Schlicher . 16 IS 16 19 19 16 17 17 13 17 
T W Speary . 19 19 16 20 18 20 20 19 19 17 
Dr W R Tener.13 15 13 16 15. 
L E Lantz .13 19 17 17 19 18 18 14 17 18 
Higginbotham .. 16 20 16 16 14 15 17 14 18 14 
B Cooper . 16 17 18 18 19 17 17 18 16 15 
Lon Fisher .14 IS 17 19 18 17 19 15 18 17 
*Professionals. 
Merchandise event, 25 targets.—L. B. Fleming 21, G. 
E. Painter 24, E. O. Bower 22, T. A. Neill 21, H. Hick¬ 
man 23, W. R. Chamberlain 20, H. T. Funk 20, H. W. 
Heikes 24, Ed Cain 22, T. M. Mclntire 22, W. A. 
Wiedebusch 22, D. C. Watson 23, C. L. Slayton 18, F. 
T. Hopkins 23, S. T. Mallory 19, M. J. Rathbone 18, 
J. W. Stewart 16, C. P. Dudley 21, W. D. Goshorn 19, 
C. B. Brown 19, W. C. Mawhinney 15, F. O’Connor 15, 
J. F. Pauli 17, J. B. Knapp 22, H. 6. Nutt 20, F. M. 
Edwards 24, Walter Llennig 23, G. Steinbauer 23, Hart 
Stanbery 21, S. B. Hanlin 18, Fred Shattuck 20, Dr. Wm. 
Shattuck 24, J. K. Nelson 21, T. S. Bibbee 22, P. 
Schlicher 24, J. W. Speary 24, L. E. Lantz 20. 
Shot 
at. Brk. 
200 
1S4 
200 
182 
200 
180 
200 
169 
200 
164 
200 
179 
200 
170 
200 
178 
200 
177 
200 
157 
200 
158 
200 
173 
200 
190 
200 
164 
200 
162 
200 
153 
200 
164 
200 
166 
200 
152 
200 
140 
2C0 
170 
200 
166 
200 
148 
200 
117 
200 
136 
200 
155 
200 
148 
200 
166 
200 
180 
200 
149 
200 
155 
200 
174 
200 
142 
200 
178 
200 
169 
200 
158 
200 
168 
200 
168 
200 
187 
100 
72 
200 
170 
200 
160 
200 
171 
200 
172 
ning 21, 
G. 
1, H. Hick- 
20, H. 
W. 
22, W. 
A. 
yton 18, 
F. 
Oct. 9. Second Day. 
Events: 
Targets: 
L B Heming. 
G E Painter 
E O Bower.17 
T A Neill .. 
IT Hickman .. 
W A Wiedebusch 18 
T H Funk ... 
*N W Heikes..._ 
Ed Cain . 14 
T M Mclntire .. 14 
W R Chamberlainl8 
*L Squier . 
*J R Taylor.. 
*E H Taylor.... 14 
G T Watson ..... 12 
P Schlicher, 
J M Speary . 
B Cooper .... 
Lon Fisher .. 
Fred Cochran 
F T Hopkins 
S T Mallory .... _ 
M J Rathbone... 14 
J W Stewart ... 
C P Dudley ... 
*W D Goshorn . 
C B Brown ... 
T S Bibbee .... 
F C O’Connor... 
J F Pauli . 15 
J B Knapp 
C W Nutt . 15 16 
F M Edwards ... 16 16 15 19 15 18 15 is 
Walter Hennig . 14 14 14 14 13 15 13 18 
G Steinbauer ... 15 15 10 15 15 17 16 18 13 19 
H Stanbery .15 16 15 15 19 16 17 11 17 16 
S B Hanlin .... 10 15 12 15 14 19 15 17 13 12 
Fred Shattuck . 17 18 20 16 15 16 13 15 16 18 
Dr W Shattuck. 17 17 18 18 19 18 17 18 18 19 
E Higginbotham 16 16 16 20 16 17 18 19 17 17 
L E Lantz . 15 18 17 18 15 19 15 19 18 18 
Dr R W Tener.. 10 18 14 16 13 14. 
VV C Mawhinney. 8 .. .! 
*Professionals. 
Special merchandise and Ithaca gun handicap: Event 
No. 1 is the merchandise shoot, and event No. 2 Ithaca 
gun handicap: 
Events: 
Targets: 
L B Heming .. 
G E Painter... 
1 
2 
3 
4 
5 
6 
7 
8 
9 
10 
Shot 
20 
20 
20 
20 
20 
20 
20 
20 
20 
20 
at. 
Brk. 
14 
18 
16 
15 
16 
IS 
20 
10 
17 
18 
200 
168 
18 
18 
17 
15 
15 
16 
18 
17 
20 
12 
200 
166 
17 
14 
16 
16 
20 
17 
19 
17 
18 
16 
200 
170 
16 
14 
17 
15 
16 
14 
15 
17 
10 
17 
200 
157 
17 
18 
16 
17 
14 
18 
14 
17 
16 
15 
200 
162 
18 
18 
19 
18 
16 
19 
15 
13 
20 
18 
200 
174 
16 
14 
14 
17 
16 
14 
14 
20 
19 
19 
200 
163 
18 
16 
19 
16 
18 
20 
17 
19 
1 916 
-00 
178 
14 
17 
16 
16 
18 
17 
19 
15 
18 
19 
200 
169 
14 
16 
13 
16 
19 
16 
14 
19 
12 
17 
200 
156 
nl8 
18 
15 
17 
15 
20 
14 
19 
16 
19 
200 
171 
17 
20 
15 
18 
17 
18 
16 
18 
18 
18 
200 
175 
16 
20 
19 
20 
17 
20 
19 
19 
18 
20 
200 
188 
14 
18 
15 
16 
17 
16 
14 
19 
16 
15 
200 
160 
12 
14 
15 
17 
12 
18 
15 
15 
13 
15 
200 
146 
17 
16 
IS 
16 
17 
14 
15 
14 
15 
18 
200 
160 
18 
19 
19 
19 
18 
19 
19 
19 
20 
17 
200 
187 
17 
18 
18 
17 
18 
19 
19 
20 
18 
18 
200 
182 
17 
16 
18 
16 
17 
19 
18 
16 
18 
19 
200 
174 
6 
10 
10 
14 
14 
10 
13 
13 
14 
12 
200 
116 
17 
15 
16 
14 
14 
17 
19 
18 
18 
15 
200 
163 
16 
16 
15 
14 
15 
17 
16 
15 
13 
16 
200 
153 
14 
13 
13 
14 
19 
15 
18 
18 
16 
12 
200 
152 
14 
12 
11 
13 
14 
13 
13 
14 
16 
16 
200 
136 
17 
17 
17 
14 
14 
17 
13 
17 
14 
13 
200 
153 
17 
15 
14 
IS 
15 
16 
14 
14 
16 
180 
159 
14 
13 
16 
11 
15 
100 
69 
18 
17 
19 
19 
15 
19 
16 
18 
is 
17 
200 
175 
14 
12 
12 
16 
17 
16 
16 
15 
16 
15 
200 
149 
15 
13 
13 
15 
16 
13 
15 
15 
14 
185 
129 
16 
10 
8 
12 
12 
10 
13 
14 
. . 
14 
180 
109 
19 
17 
40 
180 
180 
200 
200 
200 
200 
200 
200 
200 
120 
20 
31 
151 
132 
153 
157 
142 
164 
179 
172 
172 
85 
8 
1 
2 
Events: 
1 
2 
25 
Y. 
25 
Targets: 
25 
Y. 
25 
25 
20 
J W Stewart 
.. 20 
, , 
21 
20 
i/ 
C P Dudley 
...17 
16 
20 
