14 
LAiND & WATER 
March i, 1917 
dioscfi s^•Inpalhctic speakers are wanted to cany con- 
\iction tu rural aiidifnces. 
It may be a surprise to our readers to hear that the 
farmers were the least amenable class, and that in most 
districts landowners and labourers were much readier 
togivc their support to the N.A.U., as it was called. If 
the majority of tenants became owners of their holdings 
one stumbling-block would be removed, and an increase 
in small holdings, or better still in small ownerships, 
would still further facilitate the movement towards 
cohesion. A system of co-partnership between eni- 
l)lovers and employed would effectually kill the theory 
of antagonistic interests, but no real advance can be made 
until the great majority take a more intelligent interest 
themselves in the political and economic questions which 
affect them. 
It is almost impossible to make the a\crage farmer 
believe that he may be more, profitably employed in 
studving political tendencies, or a Parliamentary Bill, 
than walking over his farm ; yet when some legislative 
action affects his pocket he strongly protests that someone 
else ought to have prevented it. They will not see the 
futility of blaming Members individually, or Parliament 
collecti\-ely, for acts of commission or omission, when they 
have failed to impress their views upon their representa- 
tives through their own organisations. 
it seems equally impossible to make them realise 
the uselessness of returning a candidate to Parliament 
as a unit of either of the existing parties. There arc a 
number of men in the present House of Conmions, by no 
means confined to'one party, who are thoroughly \ersecl 
in tile practical, economic and political sides of agriculture, 
but with the exception of two (one on either side of the 
House) tiiey all forget that knowledge at the crack of the 
parly whip, and allow themseh cs to be dri\en like sheep 
into the lobbies to vote in direct opposition to their 
constituents' interests 
Vested interests are very strong too. There are a 
thousand methods in which difficulties may be thrown 
in the way of organising an agricultural group. Such 
a party will ha\e no " honours " for sale, no safe seats 
to give to the gilded supporter, no parliamentary prefer- 
ment for probably many years. It means dogged, hard work 
and by men of business experience who can yet find time to 
devote to parliamentary duties. It needs strong financial 
support, for there are very few men of the right type who 
can afford to neglect their own businesses, pay the expenses 
of parliamentary contests, and devote themselves to 
the public interests. 
Party politics arc now in the melting pot, and what 
may emerge from the crucible within the next year or 
two cannot be foretold ; but unless a real N.\tion.\l 
Party arises, wljiich will deal with all questions on their 
merits, the need of a strong agricultural gi-oup will be 
more pronounced in the future than in the past. SonK 
of the proposals made by the Speaker's Committee for 
electoral reform may simplify its creation, but until 
their final form is known they only add to the difficulties 
of prophesying. 
One thing is certain : no sound policy can be evolved 
which is not based upon sound agricultural economy. 
It is essential therefore that this vital industry should 
have a direct share in the government. We do not 
advocate an " agricultural party " because we wish to sec 
the group system developed, but if the group system 
has to stay such a party is absolutely necessary. 
Industry and Education 
An Interview by Joseph Thorp. 
rHIi ifrilcr has for many monllis been caiwassing 
the u/)intons of wcll-infornwd persons on the aftcr- 
u>ar problems of production and industrial peace. 
There can be nothing more important for those ivho 
are not actually and practically engaged in ■winning the 
war (other than lending as much money, doing as much 
honest work and eating as little food as they can), than that 
they should bend every effort to the analysis of all available 
information and considered opinion from which a sound 
judgment may be formed. The main present-day trouble 
is that the men who know are most often too busy to write 
or talk, save under compulsion of a persistent person who 
may contrive to goad them to effective expression of valuable 
opinions. The writer therefore got into touch with Mr. 
Richard McLaren of the well-known engineering firm 
of Babcock and Wilcox. Ln his conversations with him 
more ground was covered than could he mapped out in a 
single interview, but the following selection from the 
interviaver's notes b^ar upon a fundamental factor of 
the problem and show a breadth of view much less restricted 
than is usual by professional prepossession. 
* . 
" Well, no wise man lias a panacea ; but 1 have turned 
this business over and over, and it seems to me that the 
most important thing — and I am speaking from the direct 
point of view of efficient production — is not, as is so often 
supposed, the improvement and extension of technical 
education, but a radical improvement and definite ex- 
tension of general education for the worker." 
" You would extend the school age ? " 
" Most certainly I would do that. As it is, the Ix-st 
boys, the boys who would most benefit by an extended 
education, often leave school the earliest. No doubt it 
is an urgent economic motive that forces their ))arents 
to take them away, but that doesn't make it the less 
mischievous, and it's simply got to be prevented. The 
bright boy can leave s( IkkjI an<l become a wage-earner 
as early as thirteen, on condition that he attends even- 
ing classes. " This of course is perfectly monstrous. I 
think we have frankly got to face in the national 
interests the extension of the school age of full-time edu- 
cation to at least fifteen for a start- — we can take it 
And this for general education, not 
To a layman 
farther later on. 
technical." 
" Wliy do you lay emphasis on that ? 
listening to an engineer it seems odd." 
" Well, I have had some experience to go by. Great 
numbers of boys, relatively small but absolutely con- 
siderable, attend technical classes. I don't think T am 
exaggerating when I say that less than three per cent, 
are in a condition to be anything but muddled and dis- 
couraged by them. They "have not anything like the 
general equipment necessary to follow the classes with 
profit. It is a sheer waste of money and time. " 
" But you don't mean that you want to save money 
on education ? " 
" On the contrary, we must obviously face an increase 
of expenditure on it that would have staggered us before 
the war. But what I am focussing on here particularly 
is that we are not spending money in the right direction"; 
we are spending too much on people who are unfit to 
benefit, and we are spending nothing hke enough on the 
few who could benefit greatly if they were given more 
time and better chances — grants, scholarships and the 
like. And then, of course, the improvement of general 
education and the reclaiming of those best boys that now 
leave so early would add appreciably to the area of choice. 
You take my point about the technical schools ? Tin- 
boys attending these technical classes which invlve 
a fairly high standard of intelligence and in particular 
some knowledge of mathematics are very often unable to 
read with anything like ease, to write or to spell decently, 
and have nothing but the crudest notions of elementary 
arithmetic. Of course I think the serious financial 
situation after the war will necessitate enquiry into all 
this waste." 
" Do you share the view of all, I think I may .say, o[ 
those educational reformers that I have talked "with 
who absolutely condemn night classes ? " 
" Certainly, though I know there are many who think 
that abundant chances are given to the workers which are 
only not taken advantage of because of laziness. I don't 
deny that there are exceptional natures that can put in 
somestiif mental work after a hard day's manual work. 
But they are extraordinarily few, and I suspect— indeed 
