8 
LAJMU cV VVATHR 
M Gaillaux 
By J. Goudurier de Chassaigne 
December 20 ; 191 7 
I?.HALI. never forgot the first time 1 met M. Josoj)h 
Caillaux. It was in tlie sparious and imposing room 
wliicli is used at tlie Mini-trv of tlRHnterior b.y tJie Minister 
ill otiice as liis bureau. Behind' a large and beautiful 
table which reminded one of the past glories of rrencji oabiiu-t- 
niaking, a dapper little man sat in a gilt armchair. His 
.face was all smiles and full of lil\-. with bright expressive eyes 
set under an extraordinary forehead which seemed nevi-r to 
stop, and looked as if it went to the very back of an almost 
completeh- bald head, which evoked the image of an innninsc 
smooth and shiny, billiard ball. 
• I had hardly entered the room when tlie little man jumpid 
up from his seat and came to me cordially with out-stretched 
hand. \ brief introduction was made by my friend, -M. 
(ruppi, then Minister of Justice in the Cabinet whose President 
was M. Caillaux. With the gesture of a man who wastes no 
time in unnecessary formalities, the President motioned me 
into the big armchair next to the large tabic. M. Cruppi, 
who took but little share in our conversation, let himself 
fall into auotlur armchair by the fire. TlKai, if I "WV say 
, so, the curtain was rung uj) on one of the most extra- 
ordinary scenes which it has ever been my privilege to witness 
in my long life as a jouriialist. > 
It was a Sunday morning in the beginning of October, 1911. 
tp.be 9cci\rate, ()ctober >Sth, during the hill which preceded 
the signing of the I'Vanco-Gennan convention of Xowmber 
4th. 191 1. The French Government had embarked in 
difficult negotiations with Spain concerning Morocco, and 
the. fruit of all our efforts in Berlin might easily have been 
compromised through a rupture with the Spaniards. It was 
to discuss this aspect of the Moroccan problem that M. Caillaux 
through M. Cruppi, had requested me to come to Paris. 
A Personal Interview 
.\t the opening of our interview, M. Caillau.K asked mc 
what was, in my opinion, the real feehng in luigland, and es- 
pecially in pohtic circles on the Morocco question. He listened 
to me attentively, smoking all the while a penny cigar which, 
as. I \vas able to discover for myself while smoking its twin 
brother, was not e\en worth that price. When I had finished 
my surVcy of the situation Irom the English point of view, M. 
Caillaux got up from that gilt armchair in which I had seen 
M. Briand sitting a few months before. He began to pace 
up and down the room, his arms crossed behind his back, 
chewing his cigar. Suddealy he stopped, and pulling nervously 
at his dark moustache, said : " I want to go to London. 
■^'ou must arrange a luncltcon with Mr. Asquith. Only the three 
of us should be there. >Iy journey must be secret. I shall 
only be awaj- from Paris for 24 hours, but I must discuss 
rapidly with Mr. Asquitli the whole .\frican question. I will 
offer him a complete rca.iljustment of the map of Africa. .\N'e 
will exchange colonics arid territories according to our common 
interest. We shall easily come to an understanding, for Asquith 
and I are two practical men, he, because he is English, and 1 
because I am a business man. We will settle in three hours 
what these fools ai diplomats would take years not to settle. 
In exchange foV tin; concessions I am willing to make to England 
I shall ask .\sqnLtlv.to promise me his strict neutrality towards 
the Pranco-Spunis^h negotiations. Of course, England ought 
to back n> against Spaui, but if, as you believe, they have made 
up their minds to adhere strictly "to their past agreements, I 
shall only insist 011 their remaining honestly neutral in this 
matter. Of cc-wrse, this interview with Asciuith must be 
known to nobody but yourself and our friend here," and he 
jH>inted with his cigar to M. Criqipi. 
But," 1 beo.an, " you do not mean to say that you want 
mc to go l*,hind the fiick of our Ambassador in l,ondon, M . 
Paul Cambon ?" 
.-\t this remark M. Caillaux exploded, and told me with 
a choice of expressions which do not Ixar reproduction in 
l)rint, what he thought of diplomacy in general, an<l of the 
two brothers Cambon ini particular. ' He said he had alread\ 
mentioned to M. Paul •Cambon his great scheme for the ex- 
change of French and t'.nglish territories in .Africa. If, however, 
the latter (Rd not liurr} ? uj) and obtain some results, it would- 
be the worse for his brother, M. Jules Cambon, our Ambassa- 
dor in Berlin. Should tli.- Franco-German negotiations 
fail, as was still very p r)ssible, .M. Jules Cambon would pa\- 
for it. .Moreover, addec l M. Caillaux. it was quite likely that 
French public opinion w tuild not swallow the Congo pill with 
<rut a general redivisioiK rf the nuq) of .Africa, and a diplomatic 
success at the expense of Spain. 
Then followed bitter criticism of the policy of M. Paul 
Cambon towards Spain, ■\\hich I had trood reason to know 
had been straightforward, honorable and patriotic. 
I c(3uld stand no more, so interrupting M. Caillaux, T ex- 
claimed : " I refuse .to accept any mission behind the back of 
M. Paul Cambon, firstly, for private reasons, for he has 
honoured me with his confidence ever since I have known him. 
But, apart from this, let mc tell you that he has been the best 
servant vour country has ever had in ICngland. He enjoys 
the entire conlidence" of the Prime Minister and of Sir Edward 
Grey, and Englishmen are not pfone to trust anyone lightly. 
.\ pVojJosal from \ou direct, or from anybody else acting on 
vour suggestion, will certainly not be acceptable to them. To 
act outside our .Ambassador, would not only be, as far as I 
am concerned, an act of dishiyalty, but also an act ot 
stupidity." 
This argument seemed to go home. 
"Well," said M. Caillaux, " tell him what you like ana 
arrange the luncheon as you think best." 
" I am afraid," said I, " that also is impossible, for the 
simple reason that the Prime Minister of France cannot leave 
Paris even for 24 hours, and especially during the present crisis, 
without all the German spies here disco\-ering where he had 
gone to. Think of the tifect it would have not only on public 
opinion in h'rance, but also in tiermaiu', if it were known that 
you have gone in secrecy to confer with the Prime Minister 
of England. You would be accused at once of arranging a 
definite alliance with lingland. l-Iveryone would believe 
that we are on the eve of declaring war against Germany 
with the consent of the English, and with the certitude that 
they are coming into the fight with us 
1 spoke with energy, and M. Cruppi, who knew mc well, 
was good enough to approxe my point of\icw. He, too, 
eulogised the two Cambons, and assured M. Caillau.x that I 
Jiad some knowledge of English politics and politicians. 
Suddenly M. Caillaux subsided intf) silence ; then 
])irouetted on his heels, and sat in his armchair. Lighting 
another jiennv cigar, he puffed away at the evil-smelling 
smoke and said quictlv : " .After all you are right, I cannot 
go to London. But do the best \-ou can v-outself, see Mr. 
.\squith, sav what you pleas(> to il. Cambor : only trv to 
get' practical results. Then if you succ^eed, write to M. 
Cruppi, and let us sec what happens." 
In reply to' this appeal I n-marked that however much 
honoured"! felt by his confidence, I thought it useless to 
make officially or unofficially such a jjrojiosition to the British 
Government.' I felt certain that the Prime Minister would 
new^r consent to any general scheme involving a revolution 
in the organisation oi the Enghsh colonies in Africa. He 
would never adopt M. Caillaux's policy to cut and piece 
together in one afternoon British spheres of inlluencc in 
.\frica. A British statesman would inevitably refer the 
matter to the different departments involved, and ask for 
reports, necessitating long en(]uiries, from the variou- 
Ministcrs. It might take months, even years, before such a 
scheme could be prepared and matured. 
One must give il. Caillaux his due. That violent and 
choleric little man, who is always ready to fight, has none 
of that false dignity which resents criticism. A mere 
nobody like myself got as fair a hearing from him that da\-. 
as any of his colleagues would have obtained : and though 
I refused the impossible task he wanted to put on my shoulders, 
we parted good friends. At that moment I knew nothing of 
his secret negotiations with the (ierman (jovernment. 1 only 
realised that in his ap])arent patriotic fervour he was willing 
to quarrel with any nation which did not do exactly what 
he wanted to ensure the success of his policy. Had he not 
said tome, with a violence which gave mc furiously to think, 
that if England backed Spain against France, we should 
(|uarrel with her, and this after Agadir ! 
When I left the Ministry of the Interior, after our con- 
\-ersation which liad lasted nearly two hours, I could not 
stifle the imi)ression that I had been discussing grave political 
and diplomatic questions with a madman. His brusque 
gestures, his sudden fits of jjassion which made his bald head 
turn scarlet, his exaggerated notions on foreign politics, his 
complete lack of psychological insight into the feelings of 
other nations, forced me to tlie conviction tliat something was 
missing in that otherwise remarkably quick and compre- 
liensive mind. His cynical remarks, his contempt for the 
most elementary rules of private or public loyalty, and even 
honesty, proved to me that what I had previously heard 
'oncerning his legendary amorality was not mere idle gossip. 
.\nd I came to the conclusion that M. Caillaux was not really 
so intelligent as he seems at first, owing to his gi-eat facility 
of s]X'ech and the lightning quickness of his repartees. During 
our fong talk he had sliowr. no real common sense, and if a 
