378 
JOURNAL  OF  HORTICULTURE  AND  COTTAGE  GARDENER. 
November  2,  1899. 
PROPOSED  NATIONAL  GRAPE  TROPHY. 
Honour  to  whom  honour  is  due  !  Mr.  Hudson  speaks  of  the 
proposal  of  a  national  Grape  trophy  as  Mr.  Buchanan’s,  while  Mr. 
Goodacre,  in  the  next  paragraph  on  page  330  speaks  of  himself  as 
“  the  originator  of  the  proposed  national  trophy.”  It  certainly  was 
Mr.  Buchanan  who  started  the  subject,  likening  it  to  the  America’s 
cup,  and  that  at  a  small  gathering  after  the  close  of  the  Royal 
Caledonian  Horticultural  Society’s  autumn  show  in  Edinburgh  last 
September.  Mr.  Goodacre,  as  the  only  other  prominent  Grape  grower 
present,  was  asked  for  his  opinion  of  the  proposal,  which  he  willingly 
gave,  approving  of  it,  and  promising  his  hearty  co-operation.  This  is 
a  small  matter,  but  one  must  surely  have  been  the  originator,  and 
having  been  present,  I  readily  say  that  that  one  was  Mr.  William 
Buchanan.  No  doubt  Mr.  Goodacre  had  forgotten  the  exact  circum¬ 
stances  when  he  penned  the  opening  words  of  his  letter. — P.  Murray 
Thomson,  Secretary  and  Treasurer ,  Loyal  Caledonian  Horticultural 
Society,  5,  York  Place,  Edinburgh. 
To  Grape  exhibitors  it  is  gratifying  to  see  in  our  Journal  so  much 
interest  shown  in  the  scheme  to  establish  a  national,  or  may  I  say 
international,  challenge  Grape  trophy.  Why  is  Ireland  left  out  in 
the  cold  ?  Surely  our  brethren  in  the  Emerald  Isle  deserve  a  chance 
of  joining  in  the  fray. 
I  concur  with  Mr.  Goodacre  when  he  says,  “  If  the  trophy  has  to 
be  raised  by  public  subscription  the  subscribers  must  have  a  right 
to  arrange  the  conditions  of  competition.”  To  this  end  money  will  have 
to  be  collected,  and  my  mite  is  ready.  It  has  been  suggested  that  the 
contest  be  alternately  held  in  London  and  Edinburgh,  and  that  the  two 
great  Royal  Societies  take  the  cup  under  their  wings.  To  this  proposed 
arrangement  I  venture  to  say  that  there  are  serious  drawbacks. 
In  the  first  place,  it  is  well  known  that  the  Royal  Horticultural 
Society  holds  its  great  autumn  fruit  show  only  on  condition  that 
£100  is  provided  to  the  prize  fund  by  public  subscription.  This  is 
not  always  easily  got,  therefore  no  reliance  can  be  placed  upon  the 
continuation  of  the  great  exhibition  of  British-grown  fruit.  Then  the 
Royal  Caledonian  Society  claims  the  right  to  pick  and  choose 
exhibitors.  Numerous  complaints  have  been  made  from  time  to  time 
relative  to  the  Edinburgh  shows.  The  only  redress  the  Council 
of  the  R.C.H.S.  gives  is  to  put  in  force  the  bye-law,  which  runs : 
“  The  Council  reserves  right  to  refuse  any  entry  without  giving  any 
reason  therefor.”  This  bye-law  is  applied  to  those  who  have  the 
audacity  to  complain  of  the  management. 
These  are  conditions  hardly  palatable  to  would-be  competitors  in 
an  international  challenge  trophy,  especially  to  those  living  south  of 
the  border. — J.  McIndoe,  Hutton  Hall,  Guisborough. 
I  think  Mr.  Buchanan’s  suggestion  that  a  national  cup  be 
provided  for  a  collection  of  Grapes  is  a  capital  one.  If  the  Shrewsbury 
Committee  take  the  matter  up  on  behalf  of  the  dwellers  south  of  the 
Tweed,  depend  upon  it  it  will  be  dealt  with  in  no  half-hearted  manner. 
I  would  suggest,  in  order  to  prevent  confusion  in  future  contests  in  all 
Grape  classes,  the  Royal  Horticultural  Society’s  1899  Judging  Code 
be  the  standpoint  in  defining  distinctness  as  to  variety  admissible. 
Then  there  will  be  no  necessity  for  either  a  Shrewsbury  or  a 
Philadelphia  lawyer. — John  Campbell,  Mickleover  Manor,  Derby. 
Undoubtedly  if  a  national  trophy  could  be  raised  a  great  impetus 
would  be  advanced  in  Grape-growing,  although  it  appears  we  as  a 
nation  already  “  lick  creation  ”  in  that  special  line.  If  worked  on  the 
America  cup  principle  I  do  not  see  why  any  horticultural  society  that 
is  in  a  position,  and  willing  to  offer  substantial  cash  prizes  in  addition, 
similar  to  those  offered  last  August  at  Shrewsbury,  and  whose  show  is 
held  somewhere  between  the  middle  of  August  and  the  end  of 
September,  should  not  be  eligible  to  apply  for  the  honour,  the  first 
applicant  to  be  accepted  the  first  year,  the  second  the  second  year,  and 
so  on,  otherwise  ballot  for  the  choice. 
Possibly  Grape  growers  residing  in  the  south  of  England  would  be 
somewhat  handicapped  as  compared  with  these  living  in  the  north  or 
Scotland,  where  the  climate  is  more  humid ;  if  this  is  so,  it  may  be 
advisable  to  include  six  other  kinds  of^ fruit,  or  varied es  thereof,  to 
make  a  dozen  or  more  dishes. 
If  the  whole  of  the  sixty  Victorian  medalists  could  be  persuaded 
to  subscribe  a  couple  of  sovereigns  each,  why,  the  thing  is  done,  the 
funds  would  be  forthcoming,  and  an  appropriate  name  provided.  On 
that  list  would  be  found  the  name  of — YV .  Crump,  Madresfield  Court. 
With  regard  to  the  proposed  challenge  cup,  I  think  that  if  such 
competition  be  inaugurated,  it  should  be  held  under  the  auspices  of  the 
leading  horticultural  associations  of  both  England  and  Scotland.  Such 
a  class  as  proposed  would  create  an  immense  amount  of  interest  and 
friendly  rivalry  between  the  two  countries. 
In  order,  however,  to  make  it  truly  national,  I  think  it  ought  not 
to  be  confined  to  individual  growers,  but  rather  that  a  dozen  or  more 
bunches  from  a  fixed  number  of  varieties  be  selected  from  the  exhibits 
of  each  country’s  representatives  on  the  day  of  the  show.  This  would 
be  the  means  of  bringing  into  one  class  the  best  examples  of  Grape 
culture  in  the  country,  or  at  least  of  those  that  are  exhibited,  and 
would  afford  encouragement  to  those  who  are  not  in  a  position  to 
stage  six  varieties,  however  good  or  meritorious  their  individual 
bunches  may  be. — W.  Neild,  Cheshire. 
My  opinion  of  the  proposed  cup  is  that  it  would  put  the  finishing 
touch  on  all  former  horticultural  honours,  and  give  a  great  stimulus 
to  Grape  growing.  I  think  there  ought  to  be  three  of  the  principal 
horticultural  towns  in  England  picked  out — say  London,  Shrewsbury, 
and  Manchester  —  three  for  Scotland  —  Edinburgh,  Glasgow,  and 
Dundee ;  also,  for  such  a  great  prize,  I  think  five  or  six  money 
prizes  ought  to  be  given,  and,  if  possible,  to  reduce  the  number  of 
bunches  to  six  now  and  again,  so  that  small  'growers  would  have  a 
chance  in  the  competition. 
I  quite  agree  with  Mr.  Crump’s  reading  of  the  Shrewsbury 
schedule.  There  ought  to  be  inserted  in  the  schedules  of  societies  a 
list  of  synonymous  Grapes  or  fruits  for  the  guidance  of  competitors. 
— T.  Boyd,  Callendar  Park,  FalkirTc. 
Personally  (and  I  hope  there  are  not  many  people  with  such  a 
sordid  turn  of  mind)  I  have  no  ambition  to  hold  for  twelve  months 
a  piece  of  metal,  however  valuable,  belonging  to  someone  else. 
Gardeners  now-a-days  are  not  over-rich,  many  of  them  every  year 
have  to  give  place  to  cheaper  men,  and  we  know  not  whose  turn 
will  come  next.  Therefore,  as  gold  cups,  not  our  own,  will  not 
furnish  shots  for  our  children  or  bread  for  ourselves,  if  you  want  to 
tempt  such  unimaginative  growers  as  myself  you  must  offer  hard 
cash  in  sufficient  quantity  to  pay  expenses  and  a  little  to  spare. 
Have  the  challenge  cup  in  addition  if  you  will,  for  there  are  many 
young  growers  who  would  be  proud  to  win  it. 
The  Show  at  Shrewsbury  being  necessarily  held  in  the  summei 
is  too  early  for  the  challenge  cup.  To  produce  at  that  time  perfect 
specimens,  both  in  size  and  finish,  of  Muscat  of  Alexandria  or  Mrs. 
Pearson  entails  great  expense ;  indeed,  I  question  if  the  very  liberal 
prizes  given  at  the  late  Shrewsbury  Show  would  cover  such  expense. 
The  Shows  at  the  Crystal  Palace  and  at  Edinburgh  are  held  at  a 
very  suitable  time,  and  there  is  no  question  in  my  mind  that  if  the 
inducement  was  offered  better  shows  of  Grapes  would  be  held  at 
these  places  than  it  is  possible  to  have  at  Shrewsbury. 
I  have  an  idea,  but  have  not  thought  it  out  sufficiently,  that  the 
cup  might  be  kept  by  the  two  great  Societies.  If  it  is  won  by  a 
grower  north  of  the  Tweed,  let  the  Royal  Caledonian  Society  have 
charge  of  it  till  the  following  exhibition ;  if  by  a  southern  grower, 
never  mind  whether  he  be  English  or  Scotch,  they  are  all  the  same 
to  me,  then  let  it  be  held  by  the  Royal  Horticultural  Society,  and 
so  on  till  the  very  unlikely  time  comes  when  it  is  won  by  the  same 
grower  two  years  out  of  three. — Wm.  Taylor,  Bath. 
There  is,  on  the  part  of  most  contributors  to  the  discussion  of  the 
above  proposal,  a  delightful  airiness  and  cheerfulness  with  respect  to 
the  raising  the  sum  of  £100,  wherewith  to  purchase  the  cup  in  question, 
that  is  most  refreshing.  Evidently  the  various  writers  do  not  regard 
the  prospective  money  market  as  “  tight.”  I  am  in  the  matter  perhaps 
less  optimistic,  and  think  that  this  sum  of  £100  may  be  very  difficult 
to  raise.  Even  more  than  that,  I  think  that  so  large  a  sum  wherewith 
to  purchase  a  challenge  cup  is  too  much,  as  silver  being  cheap,  a 
superb  cup  or  vase  should  be  obtainable  for  £50.  Still  more,  for  that 
sum  the  piece  of  plate  should  be  less  a  cup  than  a  very  handsome 
ornamental  object  on  which  some  of  the  art  of  the  designer  has  been 
bestowed.  Too  o'ten  these  challenge  cups  are,  so  far  as  design  or  taste 
is  concerned,  lumpy,  inartistic,  worthless  objects. 
But  the  next  question  is,  once  the  challenge  object  is  obtained, 
under  what  conditions  is  it  to  be  competed  for  ?  When  it  is  assumed 
that  it  may  be  won  outright  in  some  three  years  by  the  same  compe¬ 
titor,  it  is  further  assumed  that  a  fresh  object  would  be  easily  got. 
Once  the  first  disappears  from  competition  I  have  grave  doubts 
whether  a  second  one  will  ever  follow.  If  the  challenge  object  is  not 
to  be  a  perpetual  one,  to  be  held  for  the  year  only  by  the  competitor 
who  has  won  it  for  that  year  only,  then  the  proposal  had  best  be 
allowed  to  lapse.  The  competition  for  it  should  be  described  as  for  the 
great  annual  challenge  trophy,  and  that  would  make  it  permanent. 
Then  it  is  suggested  that  the  names  of  the  annual  winners  of  the 
trophy  should  be  inscribed  upon  it.  To  enable  that  to  be  done  would 
necessitate  the  whole  oi  the  surface  of  tbe  object  being  plain,  or  devoid 
of  all  ornamentation,  and  disfigured  by  these  inscriptions.  That 
notion  had  best  be  dropped.  It  ought  also  to  be  understood  that 
should  any  year’s  competition  fail,  the  trophy  should  remain  in  the 
keeping  of  the  Society  where  the  competition  was  to  be  held  until 
